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Recent Posts
Limted Atonement Discussion
by Tom
Sunday, April 12, 2015 5:30 PM
A simple question re: Parables
by Pilgrim
Thursday, April 9, 2015 5:12 PM
No longer a post Christian nation
by Tom
Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:28 PM
"The Necessity of the Atonement" by A.W. Pink
by Pilgrim
Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:21 AM
Going back to the Berkhof question
by Pilgrim
Tuesday, March 31, 2015 9:00 PM
by Tom
Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:31 PM
Saturday, April 11, 2015 2:36 PM Limted Atonement Discussion by Tom

I am having a discussion on the subject of Limited Atonement and although I think I am defending the matter biblically, I thought perhaps I could ask others of like mind how I could have done a better job. I am always trying to improve on how I respond, yet I want to do it in a way that is not too wordy.

The other person- I personally adhere to particular and unlimited atonement. Those sound contradictory but actually they are not. In mathematics specifically trigonometry, we know an answer can be specific or based upon a line graph for the entire answer. Did Jesus come for save His Bride, the Church, as based upon the Gospel of Matthew and OT? Yes. Did Jesus come to bring salvation for all. Yes as well. The second thought logically encompasses the first. Jesus came to redeem His people but He also has those from another fold (Jn. 10:16).
The problem that 5-point Calvinists suggest is glaring is that atonement brings forth the desire result of salvation often referenced to Colossians 2. Unlimited atonement seemingly is equivalent to universalism. But if atonement works in this fashion, to bring forth the desired effect of salvation, then we've crossed into Hyper-Calvinism. What good is faith if it isn't necessary for one to be saved?
I would suggest in light of the discussion on particular atonement to look into the excellent resource of "From Heaven He Came and Sought Her" or some of the early writings of James P. Boyce on the subject.

My response- "What good is faith if it isn't necessary for one to be saved?"
Who ever said that faith wasn't necessary for one to be saved?
I haven't read any 5 point Calvinists make that claim.

His Response- Sorry it took me a while to get back with you Tom. Here's a quote from "From Heaven He Came and Sought Her" by J.I. Packer (48):"if we are going to affirm penal substitution for all without exception we must either infer universal salvation or else, to evade this inference, deny the saving efficacy of the substitution for anyone;"While a 5 point Calvinist might not make a claim against faith directly, ask one if one of God's elect were to die before faith, if they would still go to heaven? The answer ought to be "No" but you'll see the squirm.

My Response- Nowhere in that quote by Packer does it say what you think it says.
What we do say however is that if Christ died for someone they will come to Christ. (John 6:37)
No squirming here.

His Response- you never answered the question.

My Response- Actually I did answer your question. However I will say it this way. Your question really doesn't make sense, seeing no elect person every dies before faith occurs. In other words if they die before faith, they were not elect in the first place.

This person has yet to respond to me, but I think he will and I do not want to misrepresent the Reformed position. Thanks in advance.


305 Views · 5 Comments
Tuesday, April 7, 2015 7:25 AM A simple question re: Parables by Pilgrim

Why did Jesus preach in parables? scratchchin

367 Views · 3 Comments
Saturday, April 4, 2015 2:55 PM The glory of God by chestnutmare

The glory of God comprehends both the holy properties of His nature and the counsels of His will; and the light of the knowledge of these things we have only in the face or person of Jesus Christ. Whatever obscure, imperfect notions we may have of them in other ways, we cannot have the light of the illuminating, irradiating, knowledge of the glory of God, which may enlighten our minds and sanctify our hearts, but only in the face or person of Jesus Christ: for He is "the image of God" (II Cor. 4:4); "the brightness of the Father’s glory, and the express image of his person" (Heb. 1:3); "the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15). I here only mention these things because I have handled them at large in my discourse of The Mystery of Godliness, or the Person of Christ; I refer the readers to this for their full declaration and vindication. He is glorious in that He is the great representative of the nature of God and His will to us; which without Him would have been eternally hid from us, or been invisible to us; we should never have seen God at any time, here nor hereafter (John 1:18).
~ John Owen

164 Views · 2 Comments
Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:21 AM "The Necessity of the Atonement" by A.W. Pink by Pilgrim

In employing this term, the necessity of the Atonement, we are making use of an expression which calls for careful definition and explanation. Unfortunately, many writers have failed to perform this duty, with the consequence that loose and, oftentimes, most God-dishonoring views are entertained upon this aspect of our subject. To say that God must or must not do certain things is the language of fearful impiety, unless expressly warranted by the very words of Holy Writ. We are living in a day which is strongly marked by irreverence, and the most degrading views of the Almighty are now entertained by some who imagine their views of the Almighty are quite orthodox. It would be a simple matter for us to give illustrations and proofs of this, but we refrain from defiling our readers (I Cor. 15:33). Suffice it now to point out, once more, that never was there a time when God’s people more earnestly needed to heed that word, “Prove all things” (I Thess. 5:21).

This month's Article of the Month is the third installment and chapter 3 of Arthur W. Pink's book, The Atonement. Pink discusses the subject of the Necessity of the Atonement under three headings:

  1. The Atonement was Necessitated by the Will of God
  2. The Atonement was Necessitated by the Law of God
  3. The Atonement was Necessitated by Sin

Overall, this article as might be expected is quite good. However, I must mention that under the first heading I find myself in disagreement with the author. It is my view and that held by many notable scholars, teachers and pastors that the sending of Christ to atonement for those whom the Father loved before time was the ONLY possible way which God could redeem any out of Adam's fallen race. Pink disagrees, which is perfectly acceptable to do so. But unfortunately, he also goes on to degrade those who have held to this view in a very unwarranted way. It is sad that Pink chose to write what he did concerning those orthodox and faithful men who have preceded him and those who would follow him who are not in agreement with his view, which I found to be less than adequately convincing. You can decide for yourself... grin

You can read this month's article here: The Atonement - Its Necessity.

It can also be found in the general The Atonement section from the main page.

In His service and grace,

234 Views · 0 Comments
Tuesday, March 31, 2015 4:47 PM Going back to the Berkhof question by John_C

I assume Berkhof's one-volume Systematic Theology does a good job in covering the whole of Reformed theology, but subjects such as 'unconditional hardening' are not covered directly, if indirectly. How would you rate the one-volume book in terms of being sufficient for a layman. Are there areas that he does address?

Jeff, I know you gave a reply to the thread that had to be destroyed, so I assume that thread with the two posts are permanently destroyed. Did you ever discovered what was the problem?

308 Views · 3 Comments
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