Gerry to my question, “" [color:"0000FF"]Where in Scripture do you find that smoking a cigar is a sin?[/color], you answered, "[color:"FF0000"]Does not even nature itself teach you that long hair on a man is sin?[/color] "

Isogesis. First, no where in Scripture does its state you cannot smoke. Second, after taking a Scripture out of it context (long hair does not = cigars), you assume it is natural not to smoke. Third, if you will do some history studies you will find out that smoking was done long ago (at least to 4000--6,000 BC). You may even desire to see what else Columbus discovered in 1492. Different things are "natural" for different people. I am not saying this makes it right, but it certainly disproves your statement about it not being natural for some. All things are lawful….

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As if the conviction of the Spirit and commonsense were not enough, my friend, I would further contend that the Medical Community of Surgeon's time was well aware of the harmful effects of smoking, though not to the depths of modern science. Therefore, for you to plead ignorance of the matter is most sad my friend, and for you to accuse me of falsly pointing out Spurgeons error is even more grevious.
First, apparently Spurgeon was not convicted by the Holy Spirit since he grew his own. As matter a fact he believed and was convicted that smoking was not a sin. In the autumn of 1874 a passage-at-arms on the subject of smoking occurred between Spurgeon and Dr. Pentecost. . . . The latter had been received as a brother preacher at the chapel and as a guest at Clapham. After visiting the Continent, the Tabernacle was revisited. On this occasion Mr. Spurgeon invited him to divide the sermon, proposing that one should lay down the doctrine, and that the other should close by enforcing and illustrating the subject. With no thought beyond the illustration of the subject, Dr. Pentecost related his own struggle with the cigar. Mr. Spurgeon, as a smoker, made the application personal, and, when the brother sat down, immediately arose and combated what had been said. Perhaps the most graphic description of what took place within the Tabernacle, however, was given by a morning newspaper:—

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The Daily Telegraph Scandal

Last Sunday evening, at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, the deservedly popular, unquestionably benevolent, and eminently shrewd Mr. Spurgeon was preaching a sermon on the sinfulness of little sins—a somewhat favourite topic among Nonconformist clergymen, and on which, under the title of 'The Little Foxes,' some curious lay-sermons have been written by Mrs. Harriet Beecher-Stowe.

The gist of Mr. Spurgeon's discourse was that habitual indulgence in little sins leads to the commission of great ones—a position enforced by one of the most famous English divines in the illustration of the 'boy who plays with the devil's rattles.

At the close of his useful sermon the minister introduced an American clergyman who, he said, was anxious to address a few words to the congregation. This reverend gentleman 'improved the opportunity' by inveighing fiercely against the sin of smoking tobacco, especially in the form of cigars, and told his hearers how he had struggled and fought against the pernicious habit, and how at last, by the blessing and with the assistance of Providence, he had conquered his addiction to the weed.

Then uprose Mr. Spurgeon and, with quiet humor, remarked that he would not allow the congregation to separate without telling them that he did not consider smoking to be a sin, and that, by the grace of God, he hoped to enjoy a good cigar before going to bed that night.

Hypercriticism should discern no irreverence in the conclusion of those remarks. We should be thankful for all things; and in observing that he hoped to enjoy a cigar through the Divine grace, he was but echoing the natural piety of Charles Lamb, who asked why we should not say grace before going out for a walk in the fields as well as before and after meat. Dr. Johnson said grace before he began the 'Rambler'; and if Mr. Spurgeon be a smoker, he only adds another and most excellent name to the long catalogue of distinguished English divines of the Established and the Dissenting Churches who have solaced themselves with that Indian weed.
Thus, Gerry your speculation once again is in error.

Second, if you study history you will find that Spurgeon was born in 1834. According to his own testimony he was saved 1850. Spurgeon died in 1892. Now, history records for us that ONLY in 1805-1807 that CERIOLI isolated nicotine, the "essential oil" or "essence of tobacco." In 1809, Louis Nicolas Vanquelin isolated nicotine from tobacco smoke. It was not even till 1858 that fears about the effects on smoking on health were first raised in The Lancet, and then there was still no evidence…... Thus, in the time of Spurgeon, they did not have the medical facts that we have today to show the harmful side effects of normal-heavy smoking (they were just being discovered).

Now to gluttony. Your ONLY evidence is a photo. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" /> If I were to judge you according to the same criteria I would say you are a flapping bird (ref: your avatar). Gerry your speculation is not exact knowledge and thus is not a proper foundation for pointing the finger and say you are a glutton. While I would agree that Spurgeon was a sinner, you have no evidence that he was a glutton. Yes, the rest of my post did partly point to the fact that Spurgeon spoke against gluttony. He goes further, “As I would not knowingly live even in the smallest violation of the law of God, and sin in the transgression of the law, I will not own to sin when I am not conscious of it.” Thus, Gerry he would not purposely over eat, that is if you believe someone like Spurgeon.

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Is it because you smoke, Joe, that you are blind to these things? Have you made it down to the cancer ward of Tampa's largest hospital and walked down the isles and seen those who have been operated on for cancers of the oral cavity and throat, many of whom will tell you that they never inhaled, some of whom didn't smoke at all, but "only" dipped snuff, or chewed tobacco. Might be a good idea to speak with some of them too, the ones that can still speak that is. No, the problem is well documented sir, nor is it a modern phenomena only.
Gerry, no I do not smoke. But, my father died of lung cancer (brought on by by 60 years of "excessive" smoking and no cigars) about 50 miles from the hospital in Tampa you mentioned (St. Joseph's Hospital --Tampa Bay Cancer Center--where my father had chemo treatments till the last days of his life), so thank you for the memories. My wife has this “ever so rare glandular problem” (thyroid) which, according to her doctor, affects 1 in 20 people (How Thyroid Problems can Affect your Health). Could Spurgeon have had a thyroid problem, slow metabolism, et. al.? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

You condemn one for smoking/gluttony on NO SCRIPTURAL or "knowledgable grounds"— IMHO being a lit up legalistic Pharisee is a serious sin…As Spurgeon says, “There is growing up in society a Pharisaic system which adds to the commands of God the precepts of men; to that system I will not yield for an hour…. The preservation of my liberty may bring upon me the upbraidings of many good men, and the sneers of the self-righteous; but I shall endure both with serenity so long as I feel clear in my conscience before God.” <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bravo.gif" alt="" />

Reformed and Always Reforming,