First of all, I wrote that what you seemed to be saying was akin to what Barthianism (existentialism) teaches. No "labels" were put on you. So, let us dispense with going down that road, shall we? And, in your initial reply to Wes, you claimed to be only taking the position as "Devil's advocate", which to most, would imply that you personally didn't necessarily agree with the view you set forth, but rather you were simply offering what others held to and offered it for the purpose of getting a response to that view. However, it now appears that this is not the case, as I suspected and thus the reason why I responded at all. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

The view you are new espousing in more detail, whether it means anything to you or not, is certainly not that held by historic Christianity. I bring this up only to point out that your view is not that held by the Christian church and thus needs to be scrutinized as to its merits or demerits according to the teaching of the written, inspired, infallible and inerrant Word of God. For only the written Word, in its self-attestation, is God's revelation to man by which all things are to be understood.
"Without absolutes revealed from without by God Himself, we are left rudderless in a sea of conflicting ideas about manners, justice and right and wrong, issuing from a multitude of self-opinionated thinkers." - John Owen (1616-1683)
In reply to:
[color:"blue"]The written word may be (as scripturally described) the Word of God.

Your choice of words here is extremely important; vis "may be", in regard to the written Word = the Word of God. Again, for the purpose of reference, this is the view espoused by Barthianism and other forms of existentialism. In their view, the written Word is NOT God's word inscripturated, i.e., it is not inherently God's direct means of communicating His self-revelation and will to mankind. It becomes the "Word of God" only when God "moves" an individual in his spirit through that written word (actualizes it). However, regardless of whether or not a person is "moved" when reading the written Word, in and of itself, it is nonetheless propositionally true, infallible, inerrant and binding upon all those who read it. For example, when the Scripture states that God became flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, whether an individual is "moved" by this statement or not, it is eternally true. Again, when the Scripture states that all men are born with a corrupt nature, hate God from birth, sin most willingly and are slaves to their sin nature, are under the power and influence of the Devil, are children of wrath and unless they repent of their sins and cast themselves wholly upon the Lord Christ by faith they shall surely face and eternal and fiery hell as due punishment for their sins, such statements are propositionally true regardless of whether or not an individual is "moved" by it.

It is undeniable that the propositional truths of Scripture may be comprehended intellectually, even by the unregenerate. For, all men will be held accountable for what they do with those truths; either in rejection of them or acceptance of them. It is also true that these propositional trues apprehended intellectually only have no value toward justification, reconciliation and ultimate salvation. However, the intellect is indispensable if one is to comprehend the Living God and His will.

In reply to:
[color:"blue"]The revelation is in Spirit

As you can obviously see from what I have written above, which is the overwhelming testimony of the historic Christian church, that "revelation is in Spirit" is disputed and denied. Revelation is propositional. And that propositional revelation is communicated to individuals BY the Spirit, first entering through the intellect and then applied to the spirit (heart) of man, whereby that individual willingly conforms himself/herself to that revelation.

Romans 1:16 (ASV) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Romans 12:2 (ASV) "And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV) "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

Colossians 1:9-10 (ASV) "For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, to walk worthily of the Lord unto all pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;"

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ASV) "Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work."
In reply to:
[color:"blue"]But the crux of the matter is belief, faith, acceptance of that which we cannot mentally encompass - not mental assent to an historical figure, a set of miracles or even doctrine. Why not? Because the seed in fertile ground must be accepted wholly. Not merely in intellect.

There is no denying that there is an infinite amount of knowledge of God which cannot be comprehended by man. God is infinite and man is finite. However, and this is the crux of the matter, God has chosen to reveal Himself and His will (prescriptive) to man in order that he may know Him and walk accordingly in holiness.

1 John 1:1-3 (ASV) "That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we beheld, and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life (and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal [life], which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us); that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ:"

1 John 2:21-23 (ASV) "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, [even] he that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that confesseth the Son hath the Father also."

1 John 4:1 (ASV) "Beloved, believe not every spirit [teaching, doctrine], but prove the spirits [teachings, doctrines], whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

1 John 5:20 (ASV) "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." (cf. Mk 4:10-12; Matt 11:25-27)
Belief rests immutably upon what one knows intellectually. One cannot "believe" in the biblical sense without having an object of that belief. Men believe in all manner of things. So believing is not unique to one who comes to Christ. It is what and Who that faith rests upon that makes the difference. True saving faith is "fiducia", i.e., it is first a comprehension of propositional truths, next an assent to the verity of those truths, and then an embracing of those truths from the heart, i.e., they become the impetus of what a person desires and does. They are the foundation upon all that a person is and will be. (cf. Justification by Faith by Dr. Joel Beeke and Saving Faith by Arthur Pink, esp. "Chapter I "It's Counterfeits"). It is the Spirit of God, the third person of the Trinity who authored the written Word through men, who works in conjunction and through that written Word in the minds and hearts of men. He does not communicate apart from that written Word, for that was the original intent of bringing forth the written Word; to communicate to men.
Romans 10:17 (ASV) "So belief [cometh] of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."
It is the Spirit that regenerates the soul that makes it possible for that which can be known with the mind is made the foundation and impetus of all that a man does.
In reply to:
[color:"blue"]"But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." I Corinthians 4:19,20

I'm not quite sure why you chose to reference this text as it has little or no relevancy to bolstering your view. Taken in it's proper context (vss. 1-18), Paul is stating that there were those who claimed to have the truth and who rejected Paul's calling as an Apostle of Christ. These false teachers came with their teachings and were evidently causing some to question what they had heard before. And specifically, they were saying that Paul would not come to Corinth as he said he would (v. 18). The proof of who is telling the truth, Paul or these false teachers, is to be seen not just in the excellency of the words that are spoken but in the life which one lives. (Matt 7:21; Lk 6:46-49) Doctrine was not being disparaged by Paul in this passage at all. But he was contrariwise saying that although one's doctrine (words) may be excellent, if they are not exhibited in the life of the one who speaks them, then they are worth little to him.



In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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