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"Christmas" #1317
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:02 PM
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 175
British Columbia, Canada
Ruth Offline OP
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Hi All,<br><br> I am becoming more and more inflamed at the denegration of "Christmas" aren't you?[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bif.gif" alt="bif" title="bif[/img] Listening and reading to the news there always seems to be some new issue with taking Christ out of Christmas! Merchants are being told to negate ANY religious connotation in their advertisments and wording so as to not "offend" anyone! I personally have changed my greetings and closures on mail and email to "Blessed Christmas" instead of "Merry Christmas", will you join me? Let's present to the world our protestations against this idea of increased commercialism to increased "Religious Connotations". <br><br><center>[color:red]<font class="biggest">"MORE CHRIST </font mu=biggest>in<font class="bigger"> CHRISTMAS"</font mu=bigger>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</font color=red></center> <br> <center>[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thewave.gif" alt="thewave" title="thewave[/img]</center>


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1318
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:18 PM
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
USA
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Great post Ruth,<br><br>Yes, some people put the [color:red]MISS</font color=red> into Christmas (Christ-MISS) and make it a [color:red]MESS</font color=red> and [color:red]MISS</font color=red> Christ altogether (I speak of Christians here for others MISS Him anyway and their lives are already a spiritual MESS, but for the grace of God, here go I)!<br><br>My prayer is that all of us have Blessed Christmas, not only during this Christmas season--for it is not seasonal, but throughout our entire lives. May we once again hear the Christ-MESSAGE of Christmas, that He was born of the virgin Mary, lived a perfect and sinless life, was crucified, buried, arose, ascended, and sat at the right hand of God the Father. He lives!<br><br>May God Bless!


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1319
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:26 PM
Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:26 PM
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Posts: 3,455
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Unless I am misinformed, merchants do not have to bow to those who want any mention of Christ taken out of Christmas.<br>To this point, I am not aware of it anyway. <br>However, I live in Canada, so it might be different here. I do know that some stores here have manger scenes in their store windows.<br><br>Tom

Re: "Christmas" [Re: Tom] #1320
Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:23 PM
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Well Tom when the socialist lackeys that are your elected government quit worrying about fining people for excessive antiperspirant use and other infringements on their freedom. I'm sure they'll turn their rheumy eye upon the conservative Christians in the land and treat them not unlike what China does to its non-conformist Christians,<br><br>Until then I'm with RUTH!!!!!!!! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thewave.gif" alt="thewave" title="thewave[/img]

Re: "Christmas" [Re: Tom] #1321
Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:58 AM
Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 64
NC, USA
GottseiEhre Offline
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NC, USA
Yeah, there is no law besides the "no public porn" law that restricts advertising, though that law is being tested by soem major companies (Abercrombie and Fitch for one, not to mention Victoria's (not very well kept) Secret. the thing that is more dangerous about that, is that advertisers go with what sells. In some circles, Christ (or rather christ, because it is not the same one I serve) does sell. But, for the most part it doesn't, so out with the truth, and in with the practical. I must say, for all it's faults, i would sometimes prefer socialism to capitalism, but i'm not versed so much with the pro's of socialism as I am with the con's of capitalism. Is capitalism consistent with Christianity? I don't know. May Christ shine through, nonetheless, on each one of you faithful posters' Christmas!<br>Troy


Grace is but glory begun;
Glory is but grace perfected!
- Jonathan Edwards
Re: "Christmas" [Re: GottseiEhre] #1322
Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:35 AM
Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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GottseiEhre,

Yes, I'm straying off topic here! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bingo.gif" alt="bingo" title="bingo[/img] But you asked if Socialism is to be preferred to Capitalism? I can only speak from experience here, but having lived in the U.S. for some 46 years and now in Canada for almost 11 years the Capitalism of the U.S., although woefully corrupt in so many ways, is far superior to the Socialism of Canada. When I was contemplating moving here, I was told by numerous people that Canada was "behind the times" of the U.S. by 10 to 15 years. I expected a rather conservative populace when I arrived. But I must tell you that Canada, when it comes to immorality, is far "ahead" of the U.S. in most areas. Yet, I am not so naive to think that the world is to be become "heaven on earth". [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

As to whether Capitalism is consistent with Christianity: I am of the opinion that there aren't many "non-Christian" governments fundamentally. What I mean by that is that I believe that the Scriptures don't prescribe nor favor any one particular type of government. It is those who are involved in running the government that the Bible is concerned about. You can have a "good" Monarchy or a "bad" one, a "good" Capitalism or a "bad" one, etc. One particular text comes to mind about how a government should be run:
Jeremiah 22:16 (KJV) "He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then [it was] well [with him: was] not this to know me? saith the LORD."
There is an abundance of insights to be gleaned from reading the Minor Prophets, although it is mostly by way of God's judgments against those who rule with inequity and iniquity. Do I expect that there will be any truly Christian or godly government on earth before Christ returns? HARDLY.....
Hebrews 11:10 (KJV) "For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God."
In His Grace,


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1323
Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:27 PM
Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Here's what one resident of a local community had to say about this subject recently:
[color:blue]Hand-wringers ruining Christmas celebrations


The 12 Days of Giving have replaced the 12 Days of Christmas, as far as the Royal Canadian Mint is concerned. On Vancouver Island, a school board has decided that school Christmas concerts are not politically correct. Why, the very mention of the word Christmas might offend someone in our multi-cultural, multi-faith society.

Welcome to the silly season.

Have you noticed that the objections to the use of the word Christmas don’t seem to come from the Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, Hindu or Buddhist communities? People of those faiths are able to respect the religious basis for the Christmas season without feeling their own religious beliefs are threatened.

Instead, the objections to Christmas are coming from those perennial, some might even say professional, tongue-cluckers and humourless handwringers who seek to destroy every ounce of joy, tradition and soul in our holiday celebrations.

Basically, the calls to eliminate Christmas appear to come from two groups of people:
    a) members of small, obscure organizations with too much time on their hands, or
    b) high-ranking officials in the federal civil service with too much time on their hands.[/LIST]Are these two groups interchangeable? Could they, perhaps, be the same people? We hereby offer our services to take a million or two of the Chretien government’s grant funding to investigate the situation and find answers to those burning questions. In the interests of fairness and equality — those are the ultimate goals of the hand-wringer , right? — we shouldn’t stop with eliminating references to Christianity. If we’re going to clean house, let’s really clean house. Let’s eliminate all religious references from society.

    For starters, you can kiss Tuesdays goodbye. Tuesdays are named for the Germanic war god Tiw or Tyr, who received sacrifices of hanged men. What could be more politically incorrect than naming an entire day for the god of war?

    In our brave new and completely secular world, the famous sculpture in the Louvre will have to be renamed “The armless woman de Milo.” We don’t want any references to Venus, the Roman goddess of love, cluttering up impressionable minds.

    Our maps will look different, too. No more Corpus Christi, Texas, no more San Francisco, San Diego, San Juan, Santa Fe or St. Petersburg. The name Athens has got to go, too, Olympic Games or no Olympic Games. Athena may have been the goddess of wisdom and crafts, but she was still a goddess.

    The name of the Olympics will have to change, too. Those Greek gods again. Furthermore, drivers of Mercury cars will be required to turn in their vehicles for less offensive models.

    Nor should we limit ourselves to Western deities. From now on, all Chinese restaurants should be required to remove Buddha’s Feast from their menus. This dish could be construed as an insidious attempt to indoctrinate unsuspecting diners into the dharma. Talk about an inside job!

    We only need to recall the immortal words of another sage - you are what you eat.

    But that’s the topic for another well-funded investigation...

    WF.

    (“Lillooet News”, December 11, 2002)
In His Grace,


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1324
Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:48 AM
Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
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Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Ruth,<br><br>I agree with you Ruth how sad it is to see how the world misses the true meaning of Christmas and uses it for its pursuit of pleasure. Each year it seems to be hidden more and more under the marketing schemes of the spiritually blind society we live in. Those who don't know Christ can't possibly understand how important that first Christmas was. <br><br>As we reflect on the coming of our Savior this season we have so much to rejoice in. I treasurer the music of George Frederick Handel who gave us the beautiful musical composition "Messiah." It just wouldn't be Christmas without hearing and singing this glorious music and reflecting on the meaning of His coming. This musical composition helps us to express our eternal joy in Him. Even if the world fails to see the importance of the virgin birth of a baby born in a manger many years ago we who by God's grace have the eyes to see behold our Deliverer!<br><br>Ravi Zacharias radio program called "A Slice of Infinity" today had this wonderful message...<br><br>[color:blue]Handel's Messiah, Our Deliverer <br>Ravi Zacharias <br><br>One of the greatest masterpieces of musical composition, if not the<br>greatest, is the work of George Frederic Handel simply called Messiah.<br>Prior to its composition Handel had not been successful as a musician and<br>had retired from much professional activity by the age of fifty-six. Then,<br>in a remarkable series of events, a friend presented him with a libretto<br>based upon the life of Christ, the entire script of which was Scripture. <br><br>Handel shut himself in his room on Brook Street in London. In twenty-four<br>days, breathtakingly absorbed in his composition and hardly eating or<br>drinking, Handel completed the work all the way to its orchestration. He<br>was a man in the grip of profound inspiration. Later, as he groped for<br>words to describe what he had experienced, he quoted Saint Paul, saying,<br>"Whether I was in the body or out of my body when I wrote it I know not."<br>Handel's servant testified that on one occasion when he walked into the<br>room to plead with him to eat, he saw Handel with tears streaming down his<br>face saying, "I did think I did see all Heaven before me, and the great<br>God Himself."<br><br>When Messiah was staged in London, as the notes of the Hallelujah Chorus<br>rang out - "King of Kings and Lord of Lords...And He shall reign forever<br>and ever" - the king of England, drawn irresistibly, stood to his feet,<br>and the audience followed as one. <br><br>Listen to how one writer sums up the impact of Messiah:<br><br>Handel personally conducted more than thirty performances of Messiah; many<br>of these concerts were for the benefit of the hurting and the needy.<br>"Messiah has fed the hungry, clothed the naked, fostered the orphan...."<br>Another wrote, "Perhaps the works of no other composer have so largely<br>contributed to the relief of human suffering." (Footnote 1: Patrick<br>Kavanaugh, The Spiritual Lives of Great Composers (Nashville: Sparrow<br>Press, 1992), 6.)<br><br>Even if overstated, the point is well taken. The work was based entirely<br>on Scripture. The focus was on the person of Christ. The spirit of a man<br>was enraptured by the holiness of God. A king rose spontaneously to his<br>feet. The people followed his example. The first performance was a<br>charitable benefit to raise money to free 142 people from prison who could<br>not pay their debts. In the prison of suffering and evil within which the<br>whole world now lives, the same Messiah offers us deliverance. Come to<br>this Messiah today, dear friend, and you will know the joy of rescue from<br>sin and newfound freedom to live a triumphant life for God. That will be<br>truly inspiring. <br><br>Copyright (p)(c) 2001 Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM)</font color=blue><br><br>The world exploits holidays for their own pleasure but we Christians should embrace Christmas for what it truely is. The coming of our Savior! God became flesh and dwelt among us and offered up His body for the forgiveness of our sins. Hallelujah, AMEN!<br><br><br>Wes<br>


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: "Christmas" [Re: Wes] #1325
Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:24 PM
Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 175
British Columbia, Canada
Ruth Offline OP
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Thanks for that piece Wesley,<br><br> I enjoyed it and it's speaks right to the heart of my feelings. My husband and I used to go most years to a performance of "The Messiah" at a local symphony. It really sets the mood for the season of celebrating the Incarnation. We now live way out in the "boonies" and will not be able to attend a performance but we have a beautiful record of Handel's Messiah by the London Symphony Orchestra and Choir and will listen to it several times. It, interestingly, includes a booklet with much the same content of what you have quoted! Blessings to you and all your family in this time of refreshment for us to contemplate again and again the wonderous act of God to give His Son for us!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Wes] #1326
Fri Dec 13, 2002 9:09 PM
Fri Dec 13, 2002 9:09 PM

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Wes,<br>Thanks for posting that. It was good. I agree that it is a wonderful part of Christmas to hear Handel's Messiah. I remember hearing about a saved Jew being asked what he thought of Christmas and he said something like anytime we have a chance to proclaim to the world the message of "God and sinners reconciled" we should make the most of it. Ruth is right that there is no room for Christ in most Christmases. How sad so many can listen to Handel's Messiah and enjoy it but not be moved to worship the Lord! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/sad.gif" alt="sad" title="sad[/img]<br>Susan

Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1327
Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:19 AM
Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:19 AM

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Well besides the Messiah (which I agree is wonderful) lets not leave out some of the other carols of the season. <br>Once in Royal David's City<br>The Holly and The Ivy<br>Bring a torch Jeannette, Isabella<br>Veni Veni Emmanuel<br>Come thou long expected Jesus<br><br>Too many to post but each reminding us of the love of God for sinful man. Hey Ruth in case I have forgot thanks for bringing this subject up its helping me keep focus this season. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/cheers.gif" alt="cheers" title="cheers[/img]<br>

Re: "Christmas" [Re: Wes] #1328
Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:05 PM
Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:05 PM
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Western Oregon
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I agree & am glad to see another Ravi fan on here. He is one of my favorites


gil
Re: "Christmas" [Re: Tom] #1329
Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:11 PM
Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:11 PM
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British Columbia, Canada
Ruth Offline OP
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Hi Tom,<br><br> Just thought you might find this interesting. I just read it in "Christianity Today" in an article on this subject!<br><br>"It's not just a U.S. issue, either. A school superintendent in British Columbia told schools not to refer to Christmas in their winter concert promotions, reports The National Post. Even clothing store The Gap has ordered its employees not to greet its patrons with "Merry Christmas." "<br><br><br><br>Ruth


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Re: "Christmas" [Re: Ruth] #1330
Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:12 AM
Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:12 AM

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The Pagan Origin of Christmas
A Reminder

Rev William MacLean

The Rev. William MacLean (1907-85) became the minister of the Free Presbyterian congregation in Ness, in the Island of Lewis in 1948. He was translated to the Gisborne congregation in New Zealand in 1962, to the Grafton congregation in Australia in 1973, and inducted again to the Ness congregation in 1976, where he remained until his death. Under the pen-name of Ergatees he wrote Arminianism - Another Gospel; Christ or Antichrist - Facts for Enquirers; and several other useful pamphlets, published by Westminster Standard Publications. His obituary may be found in The Free Presbyterian Magazine, Vol. 90, No.12, December 1985, page 378.

CHRISTMAS was originally a heathen festival celebrated on the 25th of December in honour of the birth of Tammuz (Ezek. 8:14), also called Baal the Sun-god, the son of Semiramis, the Babylonian queen of heaven. The celebrations included hymn-singing in the street, riotous merry-making, feasting, drunkenness and the giving of gifts. Among the Romans these pagan ceremonies, known as the Saturnalia, were held in honour of the victory of Sol Invictus (the unconquerable Sun-god), over the darkness at the winter solstice. The Sun-god in the Saturnalia ceremonies was likened to a small child. . . This pagan festival was taken over by the Church of Rome in the fourth century to commemorate the birth of Christ. The name "Christmas" is a combination of the name of Christ and the word "mass" – the Roman Catholic mass.

Not only Christmas as a whole but also the festivities associated with it are of pagan origin. Instead of the child Sol Invictus, there is the popular Christmas crib with a doll as the Child Jesus. What a flagrant flouting of the Second Commandment! How awful the blasphemy in representing the eternal God in human nature as a doll! How idolatrous and worthless the religion that has a doll for its god! "We ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver or stone, graven by art and man’s device" (Acts 17:29).

The decorating of an evergreen tree was part of the worship of Tammuz or Baal, the Sun-god of ancient Babylon. Through the Church of Rome – the Babylon of the Apocalypse – this act of Baal-worship has been handed down through the centuries. Deluded Protestants, by setting up Christmas trees in their homes, schools and churches, are guilty before God of upholding and perpetuating a practice peculiar to the worship of Baal. How can anything connected with the worship of Baal be pleasing to the Lord? Was it not for countenancing such worship that the judgments of the Lord repeatedly fell upon the people of Israel of old? (See 1 Samuel 12:9,10).

The Madonna and Child on Christmas cards and stamps is just Semiramis, the Babylonian queen of heaven and her son Tammuz, adopted by the Church of Rome to represent the Virgin Mary and her Son Jesus. "The Babylonians in their popular religion," wrote Rev. Alex. Hislop in The Two Babylons, "supremely worshipped a Goddess Mother and a son, who was represented in pictures and images as an infant or child in his mother’s arms. . . ."

How dishonouring to the Saviour to have the purpose of His birth into this world darkened by rites and ceremonies belonging to the idolatrous worship of Baal! "But 1 say unto you, that the things which the Gentiles worship, they sacrifice to devils and not to God, and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils" (1 Cor. 10:20). We have no warrant whatsoever from the Word of God for observing Christmas. The only warrant that can be advanced is the warrant of the Pope. At the Reformation our godly Reformers cast out Christmas, Lent and Easter along with the rest of the abominations of Rome. They acted on the Scriptural principle: "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it." (Deut. 12:32). "All worshipping or honouring or other service invented by the brain of men in the religion of God," wrote John Knox, "without His own express command, is idolatry." God said of Israel, "In vain they do worship Me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:9).

How sad in this degenerate age of widespread apostasy to see professing Christians bowing at the pagan and popish shrine of Christmas! How guilty are parents, who are under solemn obligations to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, when they lead them into these heathenish customs! "For thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen . . . for the customs of the people are vain" (Jer. 10:1-3).

Seek to honour Christ according to His Word as our godly forefathers did. Have nothing to do with Christmas parties, Christmas trees, Christmas gifts, the selling or sending of Christmas cards or Christmas stamps. Avoid as you would the plague the Christmas Eve Midnight Service and the Christmas Crib. They all point to Rome. The observance of Christmas is largely responsible for the subtle infiltration and advancement of Popery with its blasphemous worship and veneration of the Virgin Mary. Anew we are confronted with the question, "How long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow Him: but if Baal, then follow him." (1 Kings 18:21). May it be ours to say in truth, "I have refrained my feet from every evil way that I might keep Thy Word." (Psalm 119:101).




Edited extract from Westminster Standard Publication No. 24, Easter, Lent, Christmas and the Cross, available from Palmerston Villa, 4 Millburn Road, Inverness, IV2 3PS, or the F.P. Bookroom, Glasgow.




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