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#14762 - Wed May 19, 2004 12:27 PM credible profession?  

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grace2U said

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are many people in my own church who could say that they were 'Christ's disciples from childhood', not being able to remember a time when they did not love the Lord. However, they were not baptized until they were able to give a credible profession of faith.


Define credible, please? Could you also provide scripture showing this prerequisite?


God bless

william

#14763 - Wed May 19, 2004 5:10 PM Re: credible profession?  
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Well, what would be an incredible profession?
Someone who professed faith but carried on living with his girl-friend.
A convert from Rome who still kept an image of Mary on his/her mantlepiece and prayed to it.
A 'repentant' homosexual who still trawled round gay bars.
Someone who didn't understand that Jesus is very God.

I'm sure you can think of many others.

A credible profession is one where, to paraphrase John the Baptist, there are 'fruits worthy of repentance' (eg. Luke 19:8) as well as a basic understanding of what Christianity means (eg. John 9:35-38).

A few other relevant texts might be:-
Ezra 4:1-3 (cf. 2Kings 17:33)
Luke 3:7-9
Rom 6:1-2
Eph 4:28

Every blessing,
Steve


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#14764 - Wed May 19, 2004 5:16 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: grace2U]  

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So you uphold more than mere "professors" baptism.......but baptism of those deemed worthy?


God bless,

william

#14765 - Wed May 19, 2004 9:43 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: grace2U]  

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I'm not sure how the two OT references mention baptism, or a requirement of credibility by judgement of fruit as a prerequisite. Let's look at the other passages

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Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


The fruits mentioned seem to be connected to repentance, mentioned after baptism in this passage. I surely do not see this passage listing credibility by judgement of fruit as a prerequisite for baptism. This also nothing new to this covenant. Good fruits and repentance are a theme throughout scripture.

Quote
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


I fail to see any teachings regarding credibility by judgement of fruit as a prerequisite for baptism in this passage as well.

Quote
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.


I don't see it here either.


God bless,

william

#14766 - Thu May 20, 2004 12:09 PM Re: credible profession?  
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William,

Steve answered the question you asked. You are responding to something you didn't even ask. You asked what is a credible profession. Not prerequisite for baptism.

I would like to know what in the world is the matter with some of you all here. It is incredibly discouraging at best to see some of you seemingly looking for an argument. Only so that you can try and squash anothers ideas or thoughts on the matter. There seems to be much spiritual pride here on the highway. So sad..

Michele

#14767 - Thu May 20, 2004 5:22 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: MHeath]  

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Well, thanks for the judgement of being something wrong with defending the faith once haved to the saints. I could just see you, and others like you cringing as the church answered the gnostics. The context was baptism, th quote moved from a thread on that subject.

MY question is why are we so ready to lay the dilemma aside for a pretend unity?


God bless,

william

#14768 - Thu May 20, 2004 6:47 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: MHeath]  

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First I want to apologize if my last post seemed a bit harsh. However, there is an issue I want to address.

Just as was said here

http://www.the-highway.com/forum/showthr...&o=&vc=

Quote
Prestor Johnís message to all of us is that when baptism becomes an issue that divides us, we all lose. Itís toxic comments on issues like this that destroy our fellowship with one another. Even though Prestorís a devoted Reformed Baptist he would never want to be a Baptist that caused division.


I'm sorry to see prester go as well. God bless him and his household.

The problem for me is that the baptists already caused the division. We aren't creating one here. What we are attempting to do is get to the bottom of why we believe the way we do. What I will never do is accept a unity that requires me to overlook wrong teaching. Yes, we are united in many areas, and as I have said many, many times, the issue isn't one of salvation. However, there is a considerable rift already there, and unity in truth is that which I seek.

Again, my apologies.


God bless,

william

#14769 - Thu May 20, 2004 8:43 PM Re: credible profession?  
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I think "the bottom" of this issue has been found, and dug so deeply that someone has popped through to China by now.

Concerning this particular issue..(*not all issues*) "The Baptists" only disagree on the mode of baptism if I am understanding this correctly. I happen to believe that division comes when our presbyterian friends get angry and haughty about it... that is what causes division. Disagreement does NOT equal division on issues like this.

I am not smart like most of you here on this board, so I am not going to let myself get caught up in insults or "rebukes" made to me... this is all I have to say.. except that I will really miss PrestorJohn.

Michele

#14770 - Thu May 20, 2004 8:56 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: MHeath]  

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Concerning this particular issue..(*not all issues*) "The Baptists" only disagree on the mode of baptism if I am understanding this correctly.


No. They strongly disagree with recipient, as well as mode.

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I happen to believe that division comes when our presbyterian friends get angry and haughty about it... that is what causes division. Disagreement does NOT equal division on issues like this.


Well, since a vast majority of paedo-baptists are ecumenical as to mode, I suggest you re-read the LBC on this matter, as I have posted here WHO DEPARTED

Quote
The London Confession of Baptist Faith, Chapter XXIX,
Of Baptism:
IV. Immersion, or dipping of the person in water, is necessary to the due administration of this ordinance.[6]
6. Matt. 3:16, John 3:23



and steves own words her IMMERSION ONLY to see where the difference truly arises.

Quote
My church is Exmouth Independent Evangelical Church. We are not specifically a Baptist church, although we practise Believers' Baptism. We welcome all true believers into membership, although officers must have been baptized by immersion.


I simply won't go back into the dilemma of true believers baptism.


God bless,

william

#14771 - Fri May 21, 2004 1:51 AM Re: credible profession? [Re: MHeath]  

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Good post Michele-I totally agree with you about "too much spiritual pride on the highway". Thats why I hardly post here nowadays. Too much pride and far too much legalism.

#14772 - Fri May 21, 2004 7:42 AM Re: credible profession?  

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Far too much whining as well. Far too much. And those empty claims of pride. maybe a new thread for whining needs to be created?


God bless,

william

#14773 - Fri May 21, 2004 12:28 PM Re: credible profession?  
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Okay William..you may start the whining thread <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mark! Great to see you! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hugs.gif" alt="" />

Michele

#14774 - Fri May 21, 2004 12:56 PM Re: credible profession? [Re: MHeath]  

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You too Michele <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#14775 - Mon May 31, 2004 1:19 AM Re: credible profession?  

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Anyone who wishes to define "credible profession" must deal with the example of Simon in Acts 8:13. "Then Simon himself believed also and when he was baptized..." The following verses reveal that Simon was not a true convert, and he Peter pronounces a curse on him.

First of all, we obviously don't baptize people by force. (The middle voice is often used: so-and-so had himself baptized.) And so the baptisand is someone who has asked to be baptized. When a person presents himself for baptism, we ask if he has embraced Christ and believed the gospel (or words to that effect). If the person professes to have been born again, he is baptized. Acts 8:35-38 shows this sequence. (Verse 37 is missing in the early manuscripts, but its presence at least suggests an ancient practice.)

Presumably, Simon presented himself to Philip as a convert, and claimed assent to Philip's preaching. He was regarded as one who had believed, before his commitment was tested by time and temptation.

The reasons we use the word "credible" are (1) in the case of someone who is very obviously not serious about their claim (treating as a joke, mocking Christ, etc.), and (2) in the case of a young child who comes forward and doesn't really know what he's doing (e.g., he saw his older brother get baptized and wants to imitate). But we shouldn't put a baptismal candidate on probation to see the evidence of a changed life; that's what church discipline is for.

#14776 - Mon May 31, 2004 6:22 AM Re: credible profession?  

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Welcome to the boards, friend. I hope you find this place helpful and enlightening. The original dilemma surrounding this thread was that some Baptists were denying the visible/invisible church distinction. It was a carry over from another thread on paedo-baptism. And yes, Simon is an example of somebody who WAS a member of the visible church, but NOT a member of the true church.


God bless,

william


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