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Re: Should we pray for persecution, trials, etc ? [Re: MarieP] #14896
Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:56 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:56 PM
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John_C Offline

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In tonight's study at church, that question came up. Someone mentioned that Christians will face persecution when we live our lives following Christ; we do not need to pray for it.

We need to pray for revival.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Should we pray for persecution, trials, etc ? [Re: John_C] #14897
Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:18 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:18 PM
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MarieP Offline OP
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MarieP  Offline OP
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The same came up tonight in my church. It was a prayer-meeting, and at one point we were praying for the teaching ministry of the church. The pastor asked for people to tell something they'd learned from one of the previous sermons at church. I said something along the lines of "If trials bring us closer to God and lead more people to the church, then maybe we should pray for those things." This was partly my musing about to a sermon preached on rejoicing during suffering. I also mentioned reading a post on an online discussion board (here) that seemed to hint at praying for trials (sorry again Eleanor if I misinterpreted you).

I got an answer that, no, it is not taught in the Bible, and we are to pray for peace and live at peace with others, so far as it depends on us. We are to be content in all circumstances, and we are to pray that trials will lead us closer to Christ. However, we are to focus on obedience rather than on seeking out trials.

I almost wish I hadn't asked my question, especially since I am new at my church, but I pray that those I was around will forgive me. It was hunmbling, and the pastor was very gracious with his response. He even asked me to forgive him if he was too harsh. I said he wasn't harsh, and that I appreciated his response. So I saw God's grace in that matter.

Hey, I wanted a pastor that corrected his flock if their ideas needed correction by the Word, and I got one <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" />

(Hey, it wasn't any worse than being corrected by Pilgrim, except it wasn't online, it was in public...)


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Should we pray for persecution, trials, etc ? [Re: MarieP] #14898
Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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SemperReformanda quipped
(Hey, it wasn't any worse than being corrected by Pilgrim, except it wasn't online, it was in public...)

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> And I say,

2 Timothy 3:12 (ASV) "Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

1 Peter 4:12-17 (ASV) "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial among you, which cometh upon you to prove you, as though a strange thing happened unto you: but insomuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings, rejoice; that at the revelation of his glory also ye may rejoice with exceeding joy. If ye are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed [are ye]; because the [Spirit] of glory and the Spirit of God resteth upon you. For let none of you suffer as a murderer, or a thief, or an evil-doer, or as a meddler in other men's matters: but if [a man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God in this name. For the time [is come] for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if [it begin] first at us, what [shall be] the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Should we pray for persecution, trials, etc ? [Re: Pilgrim] #14899
Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:45 PM
Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:45 PM

A
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Yes, Marie, I thought I made it clear that what stirred me up was my accepting the scriptural reality of persecution due to recent circumstances. The pain of it was nothing good apart from God's subsequent work.

Thank you for that article by Jerry Bridges, it was extremely encouraging in light of my current struggles.

Re: The End of Religious Liberty in Canada [Re: Tom] #14900
Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:29 PM
Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
United States
T
The_Saint Offline
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The_Saint  Offline
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United States
Quote
Tom said:
The_Saint said: “You know it's funny, but I almost blame the right wing extremists instead of the left wing ones. They want to silence the opposing view as much as the liberals. In 1990 a poll taken of Americans showed more than 30% didn't believe the KKK or Nazi party should have freedom of speech. Speech is free or it isn't. When we try to block out evil speech, evil will come full swing to block (or try to) good.”

While there is a lot of truth to that line of reasoning, I can’t help but have mixed feelings about it.
For instance, should a person be able to say publicly about a racial minority: “Every person who is not of the white race is not worthy to be called human. My dog is worth more than them and as soon as we all realize this and act on it, whites can take their rightful god given place and rule over inferiors. I call on all whites here and now to start acting the way they truly are.”

I for one believe that statements like that are harmful and shouldn’t be allowed.

In Canada now we have the hate bill called Bill C-250; while I understand part of the reasoning for this is to try to stop people from violence against homosexuals and minorities. The bill goes way too far and makes it sound like the Bible incites hatred towards homosexuals, which of course is far from the case.

Tom



So we have a right to tell evil people not to make evil comments? If a group of people wants to censor a group they think is evil, what is to stop the reverse? In America, what stops any majority from letting it's moral view being forced?

We cannot force morality. We cannot force moral law. In fact it is absolutely and utterly pointless to try to do so. It will achieve nothing. All we can do is present the gospel. We don't judge the world in its sin or try to force them to live a moral life.


"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." - Jonathan Edwards
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