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George W. Bush and the UMC #1561
Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:44 AM
Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:44 AM

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I have a question about George W. Bush. I always hear that those who are in liberal denominations should leave. Examples: the Episcopal Church, PC(USA), and United Methodist Church. However, I never hear these same well-meaning conservative Christians criticize President Bush about remaining in the UMC. It would seem he is a sincere Christian. Should he leave? Should he hear that from anyone?

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1562
Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:50 PM
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I am sure President Bush has heard those words before, but even in a "Conservative" denomination, there are people more liberal than the most liberal Christians in any "Liberal" denomination.

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1563
Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:09 PM
Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:09 PM
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there are people more liberal than the most liberal Christians in any "Liberal" denomination.

Could you do me a favor? Define "Liberal" as you are using it in the quote above, please? grin

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: Pilgrim] #1564
Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:10 PM
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I am saying "liberal" here as in not holding to the Bible so much as holding to tradition or what is popular in culture. People who put the Scriptures second to, for example, being politically correct. That kinda thing. Does that make sense?

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1565
Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:40 PM
Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:40 PM
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yep Thanks for explaining what you meant by the term "Liberal". Those of us who are "theologically trained" will generally understand "Liberal" to mean Existentialism as taught by such men as Schleiemacher, Ritschl, Von Harnack, Bultmann, Rauschenbusch, et al, which is totally unrelated to modern "neo-Christianity", of which you speak. grin

In His Grace,


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Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: Pilgrim] #1566
Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:24 AM
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Cool deal. I will keep that in mind when I use the word from now on [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/nuts.gif" alt="nuts" title="nuts[/img]

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1567
Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:23 PM
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I doubt that the President has the sophistication about his Christian beliefs to know that his denomination is that liberal. Speaking of the UMC in Texas, I know of some who belongs to UMC that are conservative. In fact, I think that Tom Landry did. <br><br>One thing is obvious to me is that his daughters do not appear to be trained in the faith. His family appears to look askance whenever he mentions his Christian beliefs. With his seemingly budding Christian growth, what he needs most is for someone to disciple him, but with his lifestyle that will probably not happen.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: John_C] #1568
Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:04 PM
Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:04 PM

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]With his seemingly budding Christian growth, what he needs most is for someone to disciple him, but with his lifestyle that will probably not happen. </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Hi John,<br><br>We might all keep President Bush in our prayers over this very matter. I have it on very good authority that the president recently contacted Dr. John MacArthur and that he (John) will be visiting the White House very soon. The forthcoming meeting, which was at the president's request, was prompted by a recent appearance Dr. MacArthur made on Larry King Live. I did not see the show, but apparently John commented that the God of the Bible is not the god of Islam. Why this prompted the president to contact John is unknown to me. As an added tidbit for the more inquiring minds out there, Madonna's husband contacted John as well over this matter. They did not see eye to eye on the matter.<br><br>As a side note, I would assume that by "lifestyle" you mean "busy lifestyle" as opposed to something that might have been more fitting of maybe another individual who held the office in recent years.<br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Ron<br>

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1569
Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:30 PM
Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:30 PM
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Ron,

That bit of "news" is very encouraging indeed. Who knows how the Lord will use MacArthur as His ambassador in speaking with President Bush. I do have my own personal ideas, of course, but I'm certainly not going to try and persuade God to adopt them. laugh

In His Grace,


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Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1570
Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:36 AM
Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:36 AM
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That is encouraging news about the possible meeting with Bush and MacArthur. The President must have some bible-believers on his staff. <br><br>Being busy is a part of what I meant by lifestyle, but I also meant that I don't believe he has been a part of a church community. (maybe that is good since he is UMC). His immediate family (wife & daugheters) seem totally detached from that side of the President.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: John_C] #1571
Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:31 AM
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<blockquote>[color:blue]I doubt that the President has the sophistication about his Christian beliefs to know that his denomination is that liberal. Speaking of the UMC in Texas, I know of some who belongs to UMC that are conservative.</font color=blue></blockquote><br><br>[color:purple]I have to agree with you that there are some people in the UMC who are conservative. I do tend to disagree with you in saying that the persident doesn't have the sophistication about his Christian beliefs to know that his denomination is liberal. Do we really know the president in person well enough to make that assumption? Just a thought [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1572
Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:07 AM
Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:07 AM
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Do we really know the president in person well enough to make that assumption? Just a thought. wink

Good point! And, since you made this point, given what we DO know about the UMC in its present state, should we even assume that George W. Bush is a true believer? wink

In His Grace,


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Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: Pilgrim] #1573
Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:24 AM
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[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thinks.gif" alt="thinks" title="thinks[/img]I hadn't thought about it that way. You do make a VERY good point there [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yep.gif" alt="yep" title="yep[/img]

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1574
Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:30 AM
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Kalled2Preach,

This is what was so exciting for me when RonD mentioned that John MacArthur was asked by President Bush to visit him. I am confident that Bush will be exposed to the TRUE GOSPEL, perhaps even for the very first time in his entire life through MacArthur. What a marvelous prospect this is. How rarely does this type of opportunity arise, that a man who holds firmly and clearly to the doctrines of sovereign grace can speak to the leader of the country? joy

In His Grace,


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Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: Pilgrim] #1575
Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:33 AM
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How rarely does this type of opportunity arise, that a man who holds firmly and clearly to the doctrines of sovereign grace can speak to the leader of the country?


It is a glorious day isn't it when the doctrines of sovereign grace can be told anyone...especially our leaders. thewave

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1576
Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:28 PM
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It is a glorious day when our leaders would even listen to them!<br><br>All by God's amazing grace!!

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1577
Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:41 PM
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Amen indeed!!! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/cheers.gif" alt="cheers" title="cheers[/img]

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: John_C] #1578
Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:36 AM
Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:36 AM
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One thing is obvious to me is that his daughters do not appear to be trained in the faith. His family appears to look askance whenever he mentions his Christian beliefs.<br><br>Just because they hate the faith does not mean they were not trained in the faith. Judas was trained and hated it.<br>We, as fathers (and mothers), cannot force our children to believe. If we could, then faith would be a work. <br><br>Steve C


Grace is not common.
Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: li0scc0] #1579
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:30 AM
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:30 AM

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I think it goes back to, in some way, him being more liberal in his Christianity. SInce he probably doesn't hold to a more Reformed system f beliefs, he is not relying on the sovereignty of God and instead is just hoping his children make the right choice. I can't judge though. Maybe he does hold to a Calvinistic theology and is a hyper-Calvinist and is over-relying on the sovereignty of God to save his children.

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1580
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:34 AM
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:34 AM
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From what I have read about his views, and his alliances with Romanists, I would doubt he is a Calvinist smile


Grace is not common.
Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1581
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:38 AM
Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:38 AM
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If I remember correctly, George W. was converted on or about his 40th birthday. I think it is not unusual for those who are converted as adults to have such issues in the family. Frankly, I am uncomfortable with the tenor of this conversation, speaking so specifically with respect to an individual, especially one so public.<br>


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Re: George W. Bush and the UMC [Re: gotribe] #1582
Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:45 AM
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I would agree with you. And without accusing anyone, if he is a brother in Christ, then remember who the accuser of the brethren is. It is only God's sweet grace that keeps me out of error.

Re: George W. Bush and the UMC #1583
Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:00 PM
Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:00 PM

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I have to agree too. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/dizzy.gif" alt="dizzy" title="dizzy[/img]

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