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War, is it ever justified? #1750
Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:12 PM
Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 213
New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline OP
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Jason1646  Offline OP
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Given the recent turn of events (and after enjoying Pilgrim's latest post about Hussein's obvious lies) I thought I would point out the availability of a free MP3 download from Covenant Media Foundation. One of the downloads is War, is it ever justified by Greg Bahnsen. In his usual thought-provoking and gracious demeanor he addresses a number of points in the context of the 1991 invasion of Iraq, and interestingly, the conversation includes a number of "hypotheticals" that have become relavent to us today. Dr. Bahnsen was a guest on a radio program for this message. I enjoyed every minute of it and I think others will too, even if they disagree on some of the particulars. The link also contains a message on the necessity of the Reformation, which was excellent too.

Enjoy,

Jason

Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Jason1646] #1751
Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:40 PM
Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,563
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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Tom  Offline
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Jason<br><br>I wanted to listen to Greg Bahnsen on this subject, but I am not willing to wait over an hour for it to down load.<br>That is the estimated time of the download.<br><br>Tom

Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Tom] #1752
Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:49 PM
Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 213
New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline OP
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Jason1646  Offline OP
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Hey Tom,<br><br>Start it tonight when you go to bed and leave the computer on. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>The file size is 15mb, even only being sampled at 22khz. I was going to downsample it and make it available to you, but I don't think it will help much, it is already pretty tight. Sorry, I guess it's painful without broadband access.<br><br>~Jason<br><br>PS - Sometimes those estimated downloads can be quite inaccurate. They are real-time estimations based upon the current transfer rate, which can fluctuate up and down depending on network congestion.

Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Tom] #1753
Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:02 PM
Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,540
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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[Linked Image] (I be baaaaaaaad) If you really want that file, do as Jason suggested and start your download late at night and let it run. Also, you might want to try a "download accelerator" program that decreases the amount of time needed to download files by using split sites to download from and many have a "Resume" feature which allows you to start a download where it left off should you get disconnected or need to manually stop/pause the process. I'm using a registered version of "Download Accelerator" myself and it works great.

However, I finally got so fed up with dialup that I bit the proverbial bullet and bought a Satellite system, since the dialup service around here was mediocre and there is no availability of DSL, Cable or Wireless ever reaching this remote area.

Attached Files-Click on Image to view full size.
3-19583-wdc85_proxyj.gif (77 downloads)

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Jason1646] #1754
Sat Mar 22, 2003 4:30 PM
Sat Mar 22, 2003 4:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 109
In the Hands of God
ReformedThinker Offline
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ReformedThinker  Offline
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In the Hands of God
scold To go back ON-topic: Yes, war can be justified. God led the Israelites into war on numerous occasions. Now this is not to say that war is always justified. I believe that this war is, but I may be a bit biased (I have quite a few friends in Iraq). I may be wrong, but I feel I'm right (of course).


In the midst of your sadness and woe, when you are tormented and afflicted, have comfort! God's will is done.
Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Jason1646] #1755
Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:40 PM
Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:40 PM

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Pastor Steve Cole also has a really great sermon entitle "Should Christians Endorse War" it was a big help in turning my views.

Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Jason1646] #1756
Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:42 PM
Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:42 PM

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So having listened to Bahnsen's response to the first time we went against Kuwait (He was against it for all of those who haven't or won't listen to the MP3) what do you think he would think of the current situation Jason?

Re: War, is it ever justified? #1757
Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:08 AM
Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 213
New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline OP
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Jason1646  Offline OP
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Hi PrestorJohn,<br><br>I would prefer not to make a statement as to what Dr. Bahnsen would have thought, but what I can do is provide my own response as one who agrees with the basic principle he laid out. He did assert that a legitmate defensive action may be a pre-emptive strike. He also mentioned that such a pre-emptive strike would be more difficult to establish, but nonetheless justifiable with sufficient evidence. That being the case, I have to trust in my government leaders that they are being truthful and have a compelling reason to believe that Iraq intended to use their weapons of mass. destruction against our own citizens. I don't believe that I myself have sufficient access to the facts, or time invested in what facts are available, to actually make an ethical judgment on the matter. I have placed my trust in our officials and committed myself to pray for them that they make righteous decisions here.<br><br>I will respond to one other point, and that is, if the primary justification for this war is based upon Iraq's failure to abide by the UN resolutions from 1991, then I could not support our action in good conscience. I believe there needs to be a credible threat to our country itself, which I DO believe is the concern of our president, so for that reason I am optimistic in the virtue of our country's actions.<br><br>I hope that answers your question. Sincerely in Christ,<br><br>Jason

Re: War, is it ever justified? [Re: Jason1646] #1758
Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:21 AM
Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,540
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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NH, USA
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]That being the case, I have to trust in my government leaders that they are being truthful and have a compelling reason to believe that Iraq intended to use their weapons of mass destruction against our own citizens.</font><hr></blockquote><p>This I believe is the most salient point of the contention that exists between those who support the military action and those who don't. As Joe, I and others have tried to point out several times, we are not privy to the actual information which President Bush and those responsible for the welfare of this country and indeed the world, IMHO, have; and should not have. It has been publicly stated that the U.S. government DOES, in fact, have such knowledge, and upon that information they have chosen to act accordingly. When this is all over, it will become clear whether or not that information was true, false or fabricated to serve an evil intent. Although I have little confidence that any politician speaks truthfully in the majority of cases, given the seriousness of the present situation, Bush and the entire government would have to be very foolish indeed to put forth lies in order to serve a contrary agenda. If one would posit that Bush is solely concerned for his own political future, surely his decision to invade Iraq would be idiotic and contrary to that end. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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