I did a search of The Highway but I could not find a definition of a heretic. Let me, therefore, suggest this one from "Loci Theologica" by Johann Gerhard,
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For one to be properly called a heretic, it is required (1) that he be a person received by the Sacrament of Baptism into the visible church; (2) that he err in faith …; (3) that the error conflict directly with the very foundation of faith; (4) that to the error be added malice and obstinacy, in which he stubbornly defends his error, though repeatedly admonished; (5) that he stir up dissensions and scandals in the church and rend its unity.
The first requirement would eliminate members of non-trinitarian churches since they do not receive a valid baptism. The second and third requirements would eliminate those whose error does not conflict with the foundation (i.e., justification by faith alone in Christ alone). The fourth requirement would eliminate those who have not been repeatedly admonished. The fifth requirement would eliminate those who hold to heretical error but do not attempt to spread the error.
The most likely candidate for the title "heretic" would be a leader within a trinitarian church-body who has been repeatedly admonished concerning his fundamental errors by other members of his denomination. Despite this, he continues to spread his poisonous opinions.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Someone from a Christian denomination who denies the Trinity could be considered heretic but I don't think heretic fits a person from a non-trinitarian church. He would be better described as an infidel since he was never outwardly associated with Christianity (e.g., Unitarians, Mormons, JWs, Oneness, etc.). Being a heretic is worse than being an infidel.
He would be better described as an infidel since he was never outwardly associated with Christianity (e.g., Unitarians, Mormons, JWs, Oneness, etc.).
But all those groups you named claim to be Christian. Why can't we say a heretic is someone who denies foundational principles of the Biblical Christian faith.
Now, perhaps a better discussion would be over what these foundational principles are.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Now, perhaps a better discussion would be over what these foundational principles are.
Let's start with the traditional "Fundamentals of the Faith."
1. The inerrancy of the Scriptures 2. The Deity of Christ 3. The second coming of Jesus Christ 4. The virgin birth 5. The physical resurrection of the body 6. The substitutionary atonement 7. The total depravity of man - original sin
The fundamental article of faith is justification by faith alone in Christ alone. If we do not believe that fundamental article, we can not believe any of the fundamentals you have listed.
The Roman, Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestant sects are, indeed, heretical since they deny at least one of your fundamentals, total depravity. But these churches have, at least, a correct understanding of the nature of Christ. So the Lord may be pleased to save some of their members.
On the other hand, the Unitarians, Mormons, JWs, Oneness, etc. have no proper understanding of the nature of Christ. They worship idols like the Muslims, Jews, Hindu, etc. They must be considered infidels not heretics.
your quote: 1. The inerrancy of the Scriptures 2. The Deity of Christ 3. The second coming of Jesus Christ 4. The virgin birth 5. The physical resurrection of the body 6. The substitutionary atonement 7. The total depravity of man - original sin
leaves out some important truths. Mainly : "the Nature of the Godhead". God is three in person(Substance) yet is One in Essence.
I do not consider someone who holds to a "oneness" theology of the Godhead to even be a Christian--
Primarily because all 'cults' ( using this word in its colloquial definition, not scholarly one) use that one doctrine as a springboard into error. All their false teachings have their foundational errors in their false view of the Godhead.
Also, the depravity of man is a definition Calvin used in his 'Institutes of the Christian Religion'. Now Reformers believbe that Calvin properly defined mans condition. Yet there are other Christian groups which hold to a 'less depraved' ( for lack of a better term ) condition of man. Their viewpoints must be honored-- because even they believe that man is lost and doomed to an concious eternity in Hell except he be saved via Christs atonement alone.
To me a heretic is one who is steeped in 'heresy'. Just because we baptize someone into the visible Church, does not make them members of the Invisible Church.. to go there is to tread into 'Romish Popery' ( As JC so aptly called it).
Also , fundamental Faith articles should include the Reformation cry of : "faith alone" by "Grace alone" in "Christ alone". I would add 'Scripture alone" as well.
Although we the term 'carnal christian' and 'backslidden' christian is not generally accepted, I do believe members of the body can be at times in their life: carnal, and give the appearance of 'backslidden'.
The term or phrase 'once saved, always saved' is a cheap rendering of the Reformed stance of election, but the Reformers although they believed in election and Gods predestination of his elect, they maintained that :"He that endures to the end shall be saved".
1. The inerrancy of the Scriptures Catholic belief
2. The Deity of Christ Catholic belief
3. The second coming of Jesus Christ Catholic belief
4. The virgin birth Catholic belief
5. The physical resurrection of the body Catholic belief
6. The substitutionary atonement Catholic belief
7. The total depravity of man Man made belief. Not believed prior to the Reformation.
Some further information:
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The first law of life, be it the life of plant or animal, of man or of a society of men, is self-preservation. Neglect of self-preservation leads to ruin and destruction. But the life of a religious society, the tissue that binds its members into one body and animates them with one soul, is the symbol of faith, the creed or confession adhered to as a condition sine qua non of membership. To undo the creed is to undo the Church.
BTW -- All the important doctrines of Christianity you hold and belief thanks to the Catholic Church and Her Councils. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
OrthodoxCatholic said: 7. The total depravity of man Man made belief. Not believed prior to the Reformation.
I must say, Ed, that you do have a sense of humour, be it a bit twisted.
Unless history has been rewritten in the past day or so, the doctrine of Total Depravity, that doctrine most odious to the natural man, was openly held by many long before the Reformation. One of the more vocal proponents of it was Augustine who opposed the heresies of Pelagius. Consequently, the issue of the noetic effects of the Fall was officially resolved in 529 A.D. at the Council of Orange. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
PS - ALL true biblical doctrines are to be credited to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as holy men of old wrote those things which God determined should be known. FYI, this all took place antecedent to the emergence of the Roman State Church. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />
I must say, Ed, that you do have a sense of humour, be it a bit twisted.
[b]Thank yew. I am glad I could inject a tad of humor for your enjoyment on the night before Christ Mass.
BTW -- Side subject: Is the creation of this board your doing? If so, may I commend you on a particularly nice board. Very well done, lots of nice features and easy to use.
Thanks for the kudos in regard to the Board. The Highway has been online for over 8, almost 9 years now. The Discussion Board is but a small and ancillary part of the main website, which contains over 1100 articles, some full-length books, sermons, etc.
Now, since you find this Board easy to use, perhaps you will take advantage of some of the features, e.g., the "Advanced UBBT Code", wherein if you do a little exploring in the dropdown menus, you will find a "Quote" tag. I would encourage you to use it and not type the majority of your responses in BOLD type , as it is hard on these old eyes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/gramps.gif" alt="" /> and even with those with young eyes. You will find some helpful information about the use of this Board and its many features in basically three locations:
FAQ section (link on the main Menubar)
User Guide (link on the main Menubar)
New Features Forum (on the Main Index page)
HELP Forum, where you can post questions relating to the Board
Aslans Singer said: Also, the depravity of man is a definition Calvin used in his 'Institutes of the Christian Religion'. Now Reformers believbe that Calvin properly defined mans condition. Yet there are other Christian groups which hold to a 'less depraved' ( for lack of a better term ) condition of man. Their viewpoints must be honored-- because even they believe that man is lost and doomed to an concious eternity in Hell except he be saved via Christs atonement alone.
As previously noted, total depravity has always been the doctrine of the catholic church. It is heresy to reject total depravity, to reject justification by faith alone, and thus embrace Pelagianism.
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To me a heretic is one who is steeped in 'heresy'. Just because we baptize someone into the visible Church, does not make them members of the Invisible Church.. to go there is to tread into 'Romish Popery' ( As JC so aptly called it).
Heresy is not enough for one to be called a heretic. There must be obstinacy in the face of admonishment. Titus 3:10, 11. There was no intent by Gerhard to imply that baptism into a visible church automatically caused one to be a member of the invisible church. However, I will acknowledge that Gerhard's definition may be obsolete. Baptism has become so neglected among some Christian sects that it can no longer be considered a universal sign of an outward connection to the Christian religion. But what can be used in its place?
Average fella-- what is a lie? The belief of Total Depravity? I must be reading this wrong.. maybe it was what you were quoting. I'm still new here, so I don't know all the members yet.
Baptism has become so neglected among some Christian sects that it can no longer be considered a universal sign of an outward connection to the Christian religion. But what can be used in its place?
Answer; Nothing. We have been commanded to baptize, and so we must. This is the sign of the Covenant--
Just be glad your pastor doesn't come after you with a knife aiming for your 'lower' regions. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Aslans Singer; Sun Dec 26, 20042:54 AM.
Greeting Aslans. Welcome to the board. Despite several cries about me not being "reformed enough", and several recent opinionated appeals concerning my methodologies, I am reformed to the core. I uphold all fives Sola's, the Canons of Dordt, the 39 Articles and most of the WCF. However, realizing we all follow some tradition, I prefer mine to be old and catholic.
Total Depravity is what helped me to realize mans condition. When I realized that the rest simply fell into place. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
Unfortunately, I am half in agrement with speratus. Christ established two sacraments and one has been picked to pieces and given infinite meanings, all but one incorrect. I crossed sacramentology off the list of doctrines necessary to be "REFORMED" enough.
Baptism has become so neglected among some Christian sects that it can no longer be considered a universal sign of an outward connection to the Christian religion. But what can be used in its place?
Answer; Nothing. We have been commanded to baptize, and so we must. This is the sign of the Covenant--
Just be glad your pastor doesn't come after you with a knife aiming for your 'lower' regions. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" /> My pastor probably would come after me with a knife if he knew I was hanging out with people who believe that baptism is merely a sign of the covenant. We believe that baptism is a blessed washing of regeneration in them that believe. I was referring strickly to its use as outward sign of a connection to the Christian religion.
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The Highway has been online for over 8, almost 9 years now. The Discussion Board is but a small and ancillary part of the main website, which contains over 1100 articles, some full-length books, sermons, etc.![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/thanx.gif)