I was talking with a gentleman the other day and his comment to me was that he didn't believe the Old Testament saints were regenerated the same as the New Testament saints because only in the New Testament is the Holy Spirit poured upon us and never taken away unlike in the Old Testament (Ps. 51:11). Now I don't believe this but I couldn't come up with a response. Any suggestions?
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
THis is something I've always had lots of questions about myself. Of course, I agree that OT and NT believers are saved in the same manner, but as you point out it's often difficult to put the reason for believing this into words. You might want to read through this thread
I'm not sure it will answer your question, but I think the Warfield article that Pilgrim links to in the thread contains some good information about the work of the Holy Spirit in both NT and OT saints.
I think it would be appropriate to have the person define some terms and at least defend his comments biblically. Is this person under the impression that OT folks were a different sort of sinner? The necessity of regeneration is dependent upon the fact that men are spiritually blind, alienated from God, and with their heart oriented toward the Lord. As far as scripture is concerned, this is something that has always been apart of humanity since Adam's fall. So, that begs the question: what exactly does this person mean when he says he does not believe OT saints were regenerated in the same way? Is he saying there are two types of regeneration?
Fred
"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns
Probably this person means that since the Holy Spirit was first given in Acts 2, that the Old Testament saints could not have been saved in exactly the same manner.
Well Fred in discussions with him he appears to be some sort of Dispensationalist but then again I'm not sure he never really admits to anything in particular. He has a website BornAgain@whitestonepulishing and if you read anything that he has put there its just so filled with misinformation I don't know where to begin. I believe his comments to me regarding the OT saints was that they were saved in a different manner than the NT saints? How I'm unsure. As I said some of the comments made are so outre that I was at a lost for words.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Boanerges asks? I was talking with a gentleman the other day and his comment to me was that he didn't believe the Old Testament saints were regenerated the same as the New Testament saints because only in the New Testament is the Holy Spirit poured upon us and never taken away unlike in the Old Testament (Ps. 51:11). Now I don't believe this but I couldn't come up with a response. Any suggestions?
This is what I've copied and put into my bible. I hope this helps.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
1 Cor. 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Us, them? No differnce.
Last edited by DansingWall; Thu Mar 03, 200512:34 AM.
The blood covenant which was written in the law of Moses as a shadow was fullfilled in Christ.
Then there is this covenant
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The above scripture is speaking of a covenant, that if you read the scripture and believe what it says, youll come to the conclusion that it has not yet arrived.
Last edited by DansingWall; Fri Mar 04, 200512:12 AM.
The above scripture is speaking of a covenant, that if you read the scripture and believe what it says, youll come to the conclusion that it has not yet arrived.
Are you saying that we are still under the Old Covenant?
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
