I would like some suggestions on seminaries here in the states and abroad. I am less than a year (fingers crossed) from completing my undergraduate work and have often thought that seminary would be my next step. Of course, prayer, time and God's leading will eventually move me to a decision but with only a year to consider I'd like to begin to explore my options. Thanks.
"Does he always ask this many questions or is he just trying to get out of Plebe status?"...questions you may be asking yourself right now. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
That would depend on which way you slant; baptist, presby, puritan, episcopal, lutheran, etc. I don't really know that much about you and I therefore cannot offer any great advice.
I presently attend an American Baptist Church but would probably not attend an ABC Seminary. As most would say here, I would say that I'm still reforming, so I would most likely slant towards a reformed baptist seminary. Without intending to over simplify, my desire is to receive balanced yet uncompromised biblical instruction. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />. Hope that gives you a better idea.
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
thredj said: I presently attend an American Baptist Church but would probably not attend an ABC Seminary. As most would say here, I would say that I'm still reforming, so I would most likely slant towards a reformed baptist seminary. Without intending to over simplify, my desire is to receive balanced yet uncompromised biblical instruction. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />. Hope that gives you a better idea.
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't mention The Master's Seminary, which is both Reformed and Baptist, although I strongly reject their "Dispy Lite" eschatology. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" />
And, what would people think of me if I didn't also recommend Westminster Theological Seminary - Philadelphia, my old alma mater. When I attended there, not a few Baptists were students . . . and they loved it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure that Fredman could provide some other acceptable Baptist institutions. But this I will say, that there aren't many good Seminaries left. It seems, like most denominations today, they too are having issues. But that shouldn't be so surprising because it is the Seminary graduates, in great part, who are introducing many of the heresies that are sweeping the churches.
I actually just started attending Toronto Baptist Seminary & Bible College via correspondance. They are Reformed Baptist, and I think subscribe to the 1689 LBCF (that's what they have you study, along with one of Berkhof's books, for the overview course on Theology). Check out their website and read their mission statement- it's good stuff.
I've been told that TBS is probably the best seminary in Canada right now, as far as doctrine and quality of programs. Besides being the only Canadian school openly Reformed that I have come across, they are the only school in Canada I've seen with such a strong emphasis on correct handling of the Word and strong expository preaching. They've got some excellent teachers on staff- for example, some of you may have heard of Michael Haykin for his work on church history (Phil Johnson loves his material). The school is also quite inexpensive (<$7000 CAN/year). So, take this as a huge plug.
Henry said: I've been told that TBS is probably the best seminary in Canada right now, as far as doctrine and quality of programs. Besides being the only Canadian school openly Reformed that I have come across, they are the only school in Canada I've seen with such a strong emphasis on correct handling of the Word and strong expository preaching.
Henry,
As far as I know, TBS is the ONLY conservative Christian school in Canada of any denominational persuasion. All the rest are decidedly Liberal, although you may find a few conservative professors at other institutions, e.g., Regal in Vancouver where Packer used to teach. Haykin is marvelous. And I have met and worked with Dr. Bob Penhearow briefly; a man of deep conviction who stands firmly upon the Scriptures and the doctrines of grace. Outside of that, I have no knowledge of the quality of education TBS offers nor any of its graduates. It would be worthy of consideration, IF one could stand living in Canada. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
One that first comes to mind, is the SBC Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. Al Mohler, is reformed/sovereign grace and is the President of the Seminary.
Pilgrim said: It would be worthy of consideration, IF one could stand living in Canada. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
Who would want to live there???
Seriously though, when I first heard about TBS year or two back it was a marvelous discovery, because, like you said, most if not every other school in the country is pretty liberal. I know a few people who go to the biggest, Briercrest, and the stuff I hear from them is disturbing. (My one friend, who is coincidentally reformed in his theology, shares my convictions.)
What, me worry? said: Well what about Dallas Theological Seminary? It was called by Time magazine several decades ago "...the citadel of dispensationalism."
This post should get some response!
The question was in regard to SEMINARY . . . not CEMETARY! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
If Pilgrim didn't like living in Canada, I doubt very much that he would be living here. Ask him what he thinks about Jasper. I myself like living here, but that doesn't mean that I am not aware of a lot of the depravity that goes on here. God made me a Canadian, so who am I to argue with Him. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />
Tom said: If Pilgrim didn't like living in Canada, I doubt very much that he would be living here. Ask him what he thinks about Jasper. I myself like living here, but that doesn't mean that I am not aware of a lot of the depravity that goes on here. God made me a Canadian, so who am I to argue with Him. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />
Tom
I live in Canada too- I was trying to be sarcastic. Mind you, perhaps you got that and I'm missing something! (It's 6:45am and I've had no caffeine.)
Tom said: If Pilgrim didn't like living in Canada, I doubt very much that he would be living here. Ask him what he thinks about Jasper. I myself like living here, but that doesn't mean that I am not aware of a lot of the depravity that goes on here. God made me a Canadian, so who am I to argue with Him. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />
Tom, you are totally wrong on all counts <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nono.gif" alt="" /> except that it is true, I think Jasper, Alberta is one of the most beautiful and irenic places on earth.
God also brought you into this world a sinner.... so who are you to argue with Him over that either? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
We believe that when an unregenerate person exercises that faith in Christ which is illustrated and described as such in the New Testament, he passes immediately out of spiritual death into spiritual life, and from the old creation into the new; being justified from all things, accepted before the Father according as Christ His Son is accepted, loved as Christ is loved, having his place and portion as linked to Him and one with Him forever.
From the first 12 words of that paragraph, I would say not.
However, two paragraphs earlier we read:
Quote
We believe that, owing to universal death through sin, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless born again; and that no degree of reformation however great, no attainments in morality however high, no culture however attractive, no baptism or other ordinance however administered, can help the sinner to take even one step toward heaven; but a new nature imparted from above, a new life implanted by the Holy Spirit through the Word, is absolutely essential to salvation, and only those thus saved are sons of God. We believe, also, that our redemption has been accomplished solely by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was made to be sin and was made a curse for us, dying in our room and stead; and that no repentance, no feeling, no faith, no good resolutions, no sincere efforts, no submission to the rules and regulations of any church, nor all the churches that have existed since the days of the Apostles can add in the very least degree to the value of the blood, or to the merit of the finished work wrought for us by Him who united in His person true and proper deity with perfect and sinless humanity (Lev. 17:11; Isa. 64:6; Matt. 26:28; John 3:7–18; Rom. 5:6–9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13; 6:15; Eph. 1:7; Phil. 3:4–9; Titus 3:5; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:18–19, 23).
That doesn't negate the later paragraph though. It actually seems like the later paragraph is in response to Calvinism.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
I have been blessed to live in a country where I have freedom to practice what I believe. Yes it is true that that can change and will if some have their way. But you can say the same thing about the US on that one. I also know that despite corruption in our government, they have been put their by God and as such though I will try to get a better political party in. In the mean time, I will continue to pray for them, because Scripture tells me too.
So is Tahiti from what I've seen and if i had to choose between the two I still think Tahiti might get my vote. But what has this to do with Bible Colleges? Unless there is a Tahiti Bible College then send me a brochure! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Boanerges said: What about Prairie Bible? A former pastor of mine went there.Prairie Bible Institute Is that too gone to the dogs?
I really can't say anything much about Prairie Bible Institute from anything objective. What I can tell you is that the few people I have met that have graduated or attended that school held to several "unacceptable" views. I will freely grant you that this may be no indication whatsoever about what was/is actually being taught there. When I have a little more time, I'll visit the link and see if anything strikes me either way. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I have a friend who is going to Prairie via correspondance. He's generally pleased, but one story sticks out in my mind.
In their Western history course they were taught an evolutionary view of the earth's history, replete with an evolutionary anthropology which is directly contradictory to Scripture. A paper my friend wrote for that class, which took a Biblical stand on some of these issues, was well-written but was given a failing mark by the teacher. So, my friend wrote the school and addressed some of these issues, pointing out that this teacher was teaching things contradictory to the school's statement of faith (sound familiar?). His failing mark was rescinded, but no straight answer was given about the errant teacher, etc.
They also work closely, at least in their correspondance department, with Moody, so take that for what it's worth.
I visited the website and my preliminary assessment was that the infomation was very general. No specific "What we believe" statement or noticeable doctrinal slant...I don't know, just not very impressed. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
thredj said: I visited the website and my preliminary assessment was that the infomation was very general. No specific "What we believe" statement or noticeable doctrinal slant...I don't know, just not very impressed.
I agree. And if is of any help to you (it reinforced my previously negative view of the school due to the views held by some of its graduates), I found this more than interesting:
denominational unity: Prairie is neither exclusively identified or officially supported by any one denomination, giving you the opportunity to learn from and fellowship with Christians of other backgrounds and traditions.
top five denominations represented: Inter or non-denominational Baptist Christian & Missionary Alliance Evangelical Free Mennonite Brethren
Methinks I hear a small still voice saying, "Buyer Beware!".
A friend of mine (Pastor Bret Lovitz, known as Brother Bret on the Highway) sent me a web site that you can find a listing on seminaries. http://people.bu.edu/bpstone/theology/grad.html Please note, some in this list I would call (as Pilgrim did) cemeteries, rather that seminaries <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yep.gif" alt="" />
Whitfield Seminary in Lakeland, FL is getting a pretty good reputation in my PCA presbytery despite the fact that it's a non-accredited school and a lot of their degree programs are through correspondence. Solidly Reformed.
I would like some thoughts on the what we believe statement for Southwest Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth, TX. I'm just not sure where they are on election and free will, etc. Here is the link http://www.swbts.edu/about/grace.cfm
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
thredj said: I would like some thoughts on the what we believe statement for Southwest Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth, TX. I'm just not sure where they are on election and free will, etc. Here is the link http://www.swbts.edu/about/grace.cfm
Clearly, they are for unlimited atonement and the free will of fallen man to choose God prior to regeneration. Just about everything that statement says about election is classic apologetics against Calvinism.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
That's what I thought. I guess I was hoping that I was misunderstanding. It's interesting that even in the Southern Baptist denomination how varying the doctrinal postions can be. Ex. SWBTS in Fort Worth & SBTS in Louisville, Kentucky
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
While Adrian is an Arminian (despite partnerships with Al Mohler and other Reformed Baptists), he graduated from Luther Rice Seminary
.
Anyone have any inside information on Luther Rice's Affiliations or what they believe. I think it's Southern Baptist and it looks like their current president graduated from Southwestern Baptist Seminary which I think is Arminian. Probably answered my own question eh? But ya never know. Thanks
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
It is kind of a mixture, at least it was way back when. Some of their professors are Calvinists and other Arminian. While it is not an official SBC seminary many of their graduates go forward to serve in their churches. Either way Calvinism was not "stressed" in their theology courses.... Thus, Arminian would probably be the best description, with Calvinist views held by some of the professors...., but not richly taught....
Last edited by J_Edwards; Mon Mar 14, 20052:13 PM.
Ok, got a couple more to ask about...Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis and Moody Bible Institute. I found both of these listed under the Educational Resources section of The Highway. For some reason I thought Moody would be Arminian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
Moody is Arminian, but does have some Calvinists at it (Coakley, etc.)
CTS is the "official" seminary of the PCA..... While they are a good seminary (I have several friends that graduated from there) and have a good faculty (such as Bryan Chapell) they have some emphases in areas with which I disagree.... (reconstructionism, etc.).
Every seminary has its different emphasis. Each do not teach with the same methods as well (lecturing techniques differ from campus to campus and professor to professor). Anyone desiring to go to seminary should first select the brand of their choice (Reformed or Arminian--the choice is obvious IMO) and then visit the campus while classes are in session and visit class everyday of the "week" you are there. This will give one an opportunity to listen to the instructors and interact with different students, etc. and prayerfully make an informed choice.
I'm almost positive that I must choose between a Southern Baptist seminary or Presbyterian. I know the ABC (American Baptist Churches), which I am currently a member of, can't be an option because they are known to ordain women for the pastorate and the denomination, I believe, is becoming more liberal. So as not to start a schism...new word I just learned (thanks Highway) I'll just say that I'm probably leaning more towards the SBC. Now I've heard some mention on this board and in other places how the SBC has somewhat forsaken her reformed roots; is this true of the majority or a few? My reason for asking is that I've found an SBC seminary other than Southern in Louisville, KY that is closest to our current home, which is Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City. Anyone familiar with this one? Some other options are Southeastern Baptist Seminary and New Orleans Baptist Seminary...both SBC.
It's just not so easy to tell by visiting their websites so I thought I'd try to get some insight from someone in the SBC...is there anybody out there?
Thanks again,
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
Well, Southern and Midwestern are the most Calvinistic of the SBC seminaries. I would recommend either of them. Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern in Fort Worth, has spoken against Calvinism, so I would not go there. New Orleans, to my knowledge, does not have many Calvinists on faculty, and Golden Gate does not either (except for James White, who is an adjunct). I don't know as much about Southeastern in Wake Forest, NC. Danny Akin just left Southern to become President over there, but I don't think Akin is as Calvinistic as Mohler, and Patterson just left that seminary, so I don't know how Reformed it is.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
How about Westminster in Phille? Orthodox Presbyterian. Also there are Reformed Seminaries - I think at least two, one in Mississippi, and one in St. Louis. There may also be another one in Florida. However I may be mistaken -all you have to do is a search on the web. I think the PCA recognizes these, since they are an amalgamation of Reformed Presbyterians and conservative Southern Presbyterians in 1973.
Dallas Theological Seminary's professors are mostly Amaraldians. Some of the students are probably 100% TULIP though. One of their professors in the 70s, S. Louis Johnson was fully TULIP. He is now deceased. Ryrie in his Basic Bible Doctrines espouses unconditional election.
The theology of Moyse Amyraut, (1596-1664) who taught such doctrines as Universal Grace and Hypothetical Universalism. Remove the "L" from TULIP and it leaves you in Amyraldianism.
Or, as R. C. Sprouul says, a "Christmas Calvinist"
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
As I've mentioned before, I have determined that due to the apparent liberalism of the ABC, I probably will not consider an ABC seminary. I just finished reading the Policy Statements and Resolutions section of their website www.abc-usa.org and I am heart broken over their policy to continue dialogues within the denomination regarding 'human sexuality' which includes homosexuality. What dialogue is necessary? What I don't understand is that under the homosexuality section the policy states that homosexuality is "incompatible with Christian teaching." <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" /> Also, and I've known this for a while, there seems to be no problem with ordaining women as Pastors.
So here's my question: Would it be unwise and presumptuous to assume that one could attend a biblically sound seminary and then go back to serve in an American Baptist Church, or is the goal to change one church in the denomination futile?
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
So here's my question: Would it be unwise and presumptuous to assume that one could attend a biblically sound seminary and then go back to serve in an American Baptist Church, or is the goal to change one church in the denomination futile?
This will depend on your calling. Several things will change for you while you are in a Reformed seminary. IMO go to a "good" seminary, continue to pray for your denomination, see what doors open, and then make your decision .... (there is no way I can describe the struggle you will have in all of this, but it will mature you ..., which we all need).
Hopefully no one's getting frustrated by my seminary questions. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" /> If so, <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> A Pastor that I recently met told me to take a look at Truett Seminary @ Baylor University in Waco <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" /> He said that they were affiliated with the Texas Baptists. Anyone know much about this group? I see they split from the SBC but when I read the camparison between the two groups I knew about as much as I did when I didn't know nuttin'. He also stated that I should be looking for a seminary that focused on "spiritual formation" and "covenant groups".
When I told him I'd been looking at SBC seminaries he said they were good, "they have some of the best homoletic scholars"...BUT they lacked in the area of ethics??? I asked what he meant by that but I still don't quite understand. He said the SBC seminaries would be more conservative and fundamentalist and he would recommend a more moderate school <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />...So, what d'ya think about that info?
Just in case you're wondering...I am looking into these things on my own but I wanna get some varying opinions and ask a lot of questions before I make a decision (which will need to be done here in a few months...well at least application submissions anyway)...taking a big step here, just don't want it to be off the edge of a cliff if...yaknowwhatimean.
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
So here's my question: Would it be unwise and presumptuous to assume that one could attend a biblically sound seminary and then go back to serve in an American Baptist Church, or is the goal to change one church in the denomination futile?
I am including this little piece from the latest article posted by Cook:
"It is often argued that Christians ought to seek the reformation of apostate churches and not separate from them like some “holy elite”. In the past Evangelicals have been notorious for leaving churches on the grounds that they have become unspiritual in their way of life; so had the Corinthians, but Paul did not anathematise them. We must not separate from other Christians by reason of their low spirituality — our own is not very high — but we do say with Scriptural warrant that we ought to separate from people who are perverting and rejecting the truth of the gospel, however religious or respectable their lives may be. Luther affirmed in his sixty-second thesis: “The true treasure of the Church is the sacrosanct gospel of the glory and grace of God.” Yes; and if the treasure has gone, the receptacle ceases to be the treasury. A church without the Word of God is not a church."
Can anyone provide me with some info regarding Talbot School of Theology @ Biola University? Also, does anyone have any reco's on any good graduate programs in philosophy and/or apologetics?
Thanks,
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
If your question is in regard to your interest in furthering your own theological education, may I remind you that you have been given several lists of "good" schools, i.e., those who at least profess to hold to the orthodox faith and who have as their theological basis; Calvinism. So, why would you continue to ask about schools which are anything but in agreement with your own beliefs? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />
As to Talbot, simply typing in "Talbot School of Theology" in will give you this: Google search results
You should note that William Lane Craig is on the faculty and Research Professor of Philosophy. In case you aren't familiar with Craig, he is one of the foremost promoters of "Open Theism" today. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />
...I should've known by the scary eyes icon that this wouldn't be good. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I hear ya loud and clear Pilgrim, and that's why I asked the question. As I'm still trying to figure out what area of ministry I might be called to I thought about apologetics and also philosophy. However, I by no means desire to pursue or receive a theological education via a heretical institution. One of the reasons I even began to look at Talbot was because for some reason I thought John MacArthur graduated from that institution and I also had read that they had one of the premier philosophy and apologetics programs (but now that I think about it, I may have read that on the Talbot website). Anyway, my question has been answered and the mention of "open theism" is all I needed to hear for me to jet.
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
Big Mac did graduate from Talbot (B.D., M.Div., D.D.). However Big Mac use not to be “fully” Reformed either. While Talbot does have William Lane Craig (known for philosophy), as Pilgrim stated “open theism” is his hobby horse. If you are looking for a good philosophy department consider RTS or WTS. RTS has Dr. Charles S. MacKenzie (very well known in philosophical circles) who now teaches free at RTS (classes aren’t free, just his salary <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). RTS also has John Frame who is pretty good (<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />) at apologetics. Of late there has been talk that R.C. Sproul may be returning, but that has not been made official. WTS has William Edgar and K. Scott Oliphint in their Apologetics Department. Sinclair Ferguson teaches at both campuses. Each are excellent. Each school offers a similar, but yet 'little' different curriculum. The number of Philosophy students seems to be growing. And for the Baptists, there is even a Baptist Union at RTS.
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