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Tom
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#23605 - Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:29 PM Justification  
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Is justification the result of faith in Christ, or is faith the result of justification?

Tom

#23606 - Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:00 PM Re: Justification [Re: Tom]  
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Tom said:
Is justification the result of faith in Christ, or is faith the result of justification?

This has already been discussed in several threads, but mainly in the Eternal Justification Thread. Strangely enough, you participated in that discussion too. giggle


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#23607 - Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:20 PM Re: Justification [Re: Tom]  
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"For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation" (Rom. 10:10).

Faith precedes justification.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
#23608 - Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:31 PM Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Pilgrim

I realize that I participated in that thread, but I had my reasons for starting this thread. Mainly, that I wanted that aspect cemented (if I can put it that way) in my mind.

By the way, I believe the first option is correct.
The second option, would seem to imply eternal justification.

Tom

#23609 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:12 PM Re: Justification [Re: Tom]  
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Scripture is quite clear on this issue. We are justified by faith (Rom 3:28, Rom 5:1, Gal 2:16, Gal 3:24). We are not "faith by justified"--for lack of a better inverse.


"He is not here, for he has risen"--Matthew 28:6
#23610 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:03 PM Re: Justification [Re: Solo Christo]  
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I agree with you, but some Calvinists believe that we are justified and that leads to faith. They believe this because; they mistakenly believe that if it is the other way around, it would show that we would have something to boast about.
I believe however, that if we realize that it is God that gives us the faith in the first place (Eph. 2:8-10) and that faith is not something that can somehow be resisted. Then the supposed problem that they see is resolved.

Does that make sense to you?
Tom

#23611 - Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:10 PM Re: Justification [Re: Tom]  
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Absolutely. Believing that justification precedes faith generally leads to what is commonly known as Hyper-Calvinism.


"He is not here, for he has risen"--Matthew 28:6
#23612 - Sun May 29, 2005 9:58 PM Re: Justification [Re: Solo Christo]  

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How does a belief in 'eternal justification' lead to Hyper-Calvinism?

#23613 - Sun May 29, 2005 10:33 PM Re: Justification  
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Lex Rex said:
How does a belief in 'eternal justification' lead to Hyper-Calvinism?

Have you read through the previous discussion that took place here and to which a link was provided in my reply to Tom . . . which you can access by clicking here: Discussion on "Eternal Justification".

You may find what you are looking for there. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


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#23614 - Mon May 30, 2005 12:49 AM Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim]  

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Thanks for the link, Pilgrim. I'm sorry if I wrote without having read that. Couldn't open Berkhof link, kept crashing, probably my end, but read him off my shelves.
Still unsure what the link between Justification from Eternity (JFE) and Hyper Calvinism (HC) is. It seems that maybe Brine or Gill held both. Who were they and why are they important? What is the link b/n HC and JFE?

#23615 - Mon May 30, 2005 3:30 AM Re: Justification  
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Lex Rex said:
Still unsure what the link between Justification from Eternity (JFE) and Hyper Calvinism (HC) is.

I'm not sure there is a necessary link between "eternal justification" and "hyper-Calvinism". But one could reason, albeit wrongly, that since the elect are justified in eternity then there is no need for the proclamation of the Gospel by which the elect are called to faith in Christ in order to be justified. Barth, which you are probably aware, reasoned in a similar vein with his dialectic where he believed that although there was a universal eternal election the human race was divided into two distinct groups: 1) the elect, elect and 2) the elect, reject. In the case of the first group (elect, elect), they are those who come to realize their election in their lifetime on earth. The other group (elect, reject), although elected, they never come to realize and experience the benefits of their election. Some, who hold to eternal justification, also reason that the elect have no need to be justified, but rather they need to realize their justification and thus rejoice in it and show forth a life of thankfulness unto the Lord.

But again, I do not see a logical necessity that if one should hold to an "eternal justification" (which I definitely do not) then it must follow that evangelism and the offer of the Gospel is moot.

In His Grace,


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#23616 - Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:04 PM Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim]  

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Thanks, Pilgrim.


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