Donations for the month of April


We have received a total of $100 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
Anthony C.
Anthony C.
NJ/PA
Posts: 218
Joined: May 2016
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,620
Posts51,090
Members925
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,411
Tom 3,426
chestnutmare 2,910
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,754
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 18
Tom 10
cathmg 5
Tina 3
John_C 3
Kaylin 1
Recent Posts
What exactly is a confessional church
by Pilgrim. Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:33 AM
Dispensationalism
by Tom. Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 PM
James White Article
by Pilgrim. Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:10 PM
Importance of dating the destruction of the Temple
by Pilgrim. Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:13 PM
A study of the Heidelberg Catechism
by cathmg. Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:58 PM
"The Reformed View of Sanctification" - Sinclair Ferguson
by Pilgrim. Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:04 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Justification #23605
Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:29 PM
Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Is justification the result of faith in Christ, or is faith the result of justification?

Tom

Re: Justification [Re: Tom] #23606
Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:00 PM
Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Quote
Tom said:
Is justification the result of faith in Christ, or is faith the result of justification?

This has already been discussed in several threads, but mainly in the Eternal Justification Thread. Strangely enough, you participated in that discussion too. giggle


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Justification [Re: Tom] #23607
Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:20 PM
Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
"For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation" (Rom. 10:10).

Faith precedes justification.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim] #23608
Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:31 PM
Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrim

I realize that I participated in that thread, but I had my reasons for starting this thread. Mainly, that I wanted that aspect cemented (if I can put it that way) in my mind.

By the way, I believe the first option is correct.
The second option, would seem to imply eternal justification.

Tom

Re: Justification [Re: Tom] #23609
Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:12 PM
Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 13
Georgia
S
Solo Christo Offline
Plebeian
Solo Christo  Offline
Plebeian
S
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 13
Georgia
Scripture is quite clear on this issue. We are justified by faith (Rom 3:28, Rom 5:1, Gal 2:16, Gal 3:24). We are not "faith by justified"--for lack of a better inverse.


"He is not here, for he has risen"--Matthew 28:6
Re: Justification [Re: Solo Christo] #23610
Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:03 PM
Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
I agree with you, but some Calvinists believe that we are justified and that leads to faith. They believe this because; they mistakenly believe that if it is the other way around, it would show that we would have something to boast about.
I believe however, that if we realize that it is God that gives us the faith in the first place (Eph. 2:8-10) and that faith is not something that can somehow be resisted. Then the supposed problem that they see is resolved.

Does that make sense to you?
Tom

Re: Justification [Re: Tom] #23611
Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:10 PM
Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 13
Georgia
S
Solo Christo Offline
Plebeian
Solo Christo  Offline
Plebeian
S
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 13
Georgia
Absolutely. Believing that justification precedes faith generally leads to what is commonly known as Hyper-Calvinism.


"He is not here, for he has risen"--Matthew 28:6
Re: Justification [Re: Solo Christo] #23612
Sun May 29, 2005 10:58 PM
Sun May 29, 2005 10:58 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


How does a belief in 'eternal justification' lead to Hyper-Calvinism?

Re: Justification #23613
Sun May 29, 2005 11:33 PM
Sun May 29, 2005 11:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Quote
Lex Rex said:
How does a belief in 'eternal justification' lead to Hyper-Calvinism?

Have you read through the previous discussion that took place here and to which a link was provided in my reply to Tom . . . which you can access by clicking here: Discussion on "Eternal Justification".

You may find what you are looking for there. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim] #23614
Mon May 30, 2005 1:49 AM
Mon May 30, 2005 1:49 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Thanks for the link, Pilgrim. I'm sorry if I wrote without having read that. Couldn't open Berkhof link, kept crashing, probably my end, but read him off my shelves.
Still unsure what the link between Justification from Eternity (JFE) and Hyper Calvinism (HC) is. It seems that maybe Brine or Gill held both. Who were they and why are they important? What is the link b/n HC and JFE?

Re: Justification #23615
Mon May 30, 2005 4:30 AM
Mon May 30, 2005 4:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Quote
Lex Rex said:
Still unsure what the link between Justification from Eternity (JFE) and Hyper Calvinism (HC) is.

I'm not sure there is a necessary link between "eternal justification" and "hyper-Calvinism". But one could reason, albeit wrongly, that since the elect are justified in eternity then there is no need for the proclamation of the Gospel by which the elect are called to faith in Christ in order to be justified. Barth, which you are probably aware, reasoned in a similar vein with his dialectic where he believed that although there was a universal eternal election the human race was divided into two distinct groups: 1) the elect, elect and 2) the elect, reject. In the case of the first group (elect, elect), they are those who come to realize their election in their lifetime on earth. The other group (elect, reject), although elected, they never come to realize and experience the benefits of their election. Some, who hold to eternal justification, also reason that the elect have no need to be justified, but rather they need to realize their justification and thus rejoice in it and show forth a life of thankfulness unto the Lord.

But again, I do not see a logical necessity that if one should hold to an "eternal justification" (which I definitely do not) then it must follow that evangelism and the offer of the Gospel is moot.

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Justification [Re: Pilgrim] #23616
Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:04 PM
Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:04 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Thanks, Pilgrim.


Who's Online Now
1 registered members (chestnutmare), 17 guests, and 108 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dutch Michael, Ray, robertolang, SmallFry, drewk
925 Registered Users
Shout Box
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
736,079 Gospel truth
Page Time: 0.049s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 2.9054 MB (Peak: 3.2180 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-21 11:37:25 UTC