The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Petra and Petros

When I think about Peter, I think about someone who stands out in the aspect of acting first, before the other apostles. Walking on the water and cutting off the soldier's ear are just a few examples of this.
But does this make Peter the leader of the apostles?
I think one needs to speculate too much to know for sure.

Tom

Joe,

Thanks for that NT Stats link! I played with a few of its beans and came up with this, based on total Greek words:

Author	# Words	% Words
All	138,020	100.0
Luke	37,933	27.5
Paul	32,407	23.5
John	28,092	20.4
Matthew	18,345	13.3
Mark	11,304	8.2
Hebrews	4,953	3.6
Peter	2,783	2.0
James	1,742	1.2
Jude	461	0.3

Even if we assume Paul wrote Hebrews, Luke still wins:

Author	# Words	% Words
All	138,020	100.0
Luke	37,933	27.5
Paul	37,360	27.1
John	28,092	20.4
Matthew	18,345	13.3
Mark	11,304	8.2
Peter	2,783	2.0
James	1,742	1.2
Jude	461	0.3

Back on-topic, it's interesting how little Peter actually wrote...

Back off-topic again, it would be interesting--and very time-consuming--to redo the above tables based not merely on words written, but on words written and/or spoken. I.e. Paul's words in Acts should be taken from Luke and assigned to Paul; same with Peter; and the Lord's words in the Gospels etc. taken from the writers and assigned to him. In that case, Paul (and Peter) would certainly rise, while Luke and the other gospel writers would go down quite a bit. Anybody ready to count some more beans?

First, great job on the stats <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bravo.gif" alt="" /> If some of you proceed with this very bean intensive task please also remove all the OT references listed—that is if we are looking for originality in who said the most.

Second, an argument can be made that Peter was too busy leading to write as much as Paul, Luke, etc., so don’t spend too much time with the stats.

Third, Catholics argue that Peter was the Pope of Rome which IMO has "somewhat" of a bearing on the question at hand.

When Paul writes to Rome, he never greets Peter in the letter (strange if Peter is in charge). In speaking of the Pillars of the church, Paul writes, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised (Gal 2:9). This is a very important. It shows clearly that every apostle had a limitation to their authority. The Apostles had ministry assignments.

Acts 15 records an important issue that came up to the apostles. How were they to deal with Gentiles becoming Christians? Paul and Barnabus shared the miracle of the conversion of Gentiles. After some discussion Peter offers his opinon. However in the end, it is James who has the last word: “After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me” (Acts 15:13).—significant!

In Matthew 16:18-19, the argument made by the RCC is this: Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, so he alone had the authority to “bind and loose.” The problem with their argument is this: Jesus gave not only Peter the power to “bind and loose,” He gave this power to all His disciples. Look carefully two chapters later. Jesus said the same thing, “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven,” (Matt 18:18) when He was speaking to ALL the disciples [pl] (Matt 18:1). Jesus discussed the role of leaders and their [pl] power to “bind and loose,” (not just Peters).

In addition, Peter’s pope skills would be questioned: (1) he was not always the brightest bulb in the bunch (Mark 9:2-6) (2) he was over confident (Matthew 26:31-35) (3) he denied the LORD, (4) he was too impulsive (John 18:10), and (5) he was married (Matt 8:14; Mark 1:30; Luke 4:38; 1 Cor 9:5). However, he was still a called Apostle—marvelous grace!

I don't know if Peter actually went to Rome. If I'm not mistaken the Church there was started by Roman believers then strengthened by Paul upon his visit/incarceration. If anyone had a solid ministry in Rome it was Paul who was, if I'm not mistaken, martyred just outside the city.

Foxe's Book of Martyr's says they were both killed there but there seems to be doubts about Peter.

I agree <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />, but I was doing the RCC thingy.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yep.gif" alt="" />
I think I saw a drunk Nun do that dance at a Catholic Hospital party once. We were all working the evening shift and they were having a street party between buildings...long story. Yeah I never could buy that Pope Peter deal and it doesn't jive with scripture.

Shame on Pilgrim for not letting me say exactly what I force the Scriptures to say! And this on his own website.

After reviewing your posts last night and reading again Calvin's Institutes Bk. 4 Ch. 6, "The Primacy of the Roman See" I am more than willing to conceed everything you have said.

I think I will pontificate much less and listen much more.

One question for you though, and an honest answer might mean more to me than all of this: Have you ever had a "foolproof" idea about Scripture content, only later to learn that the idea was foolish in the first place?

I apologize for losing my temper.

Denny

Roms 3:22-24

Actually, no. I can't remember ever having a "foolproof" idea, but I have had my share of "new" (aka: novel) ideas which I soon discovered were "out of bounds", to use your terminology. I wasn't born with the knowledge I now have..... believe it or not I had to learn it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And to be sure, much of what I was initially taught by well-meaning pastors and friends, has been relegated to the dung heap. What I mean is that I was taught Armianism, credobaptist, Dispensationalism, quasi-Charismania, etc. But by God's unspeakable grace, I was brought to the knowledge of the truth through the reading of Scripture and later the aid of some truly great and godly men, e.g., Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, John Calvin, John Willison, John Bunyan, John Gerstner, et al (gee, look at all those "Johns" ) To be perfectly honest, I did not have the benefit of being challenged by friends who had come to the knowledge of the Reformed Faith. Nor did I have the Internet and access to Boards like this one. Truly, God is good in providing the necessary means to those who seek His truth. And no, I have no delusions that I have "arrived". There are probably one or two more things I need to learn. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Not to worry! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/comfort.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,