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#2548 Tue May 06, 2003 9:29 PM
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“What is the most important function of youth ministry? A. Introduce young people to Jesus. B. Providing healthy activities. C. Involving young people in service. D. Abstinence pledges. E. Good theological training. F. Worship. Answer None of the above - the most important function of youth ministry is longevity." - Mike Yaconelli in an article in Youth Worker Magazine<br><br>Someone please tell me what is going on? Our students are being fed baby food in the name of maintaining numbers and longevity. In an attempt to be politically correct, our students are not hearing the true gospel, but another gospel alltogether. Being as I am going in to youth ministry, this hits home hard. Not with how I do things, but with how I see others doing things. And I am scared deep down for today's students.<br><br><blockquote>[color:blue]I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.</font color=blue> (Romans 9:1-5 NASB)</blockquote><br>I have made my comments...I have stated my case...and my fear has not ceased and I pray it never does. Just wanted to share. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown[/img] <br><br>

#2549 Wed May 07, 2003 7:57 AM
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I haven't found a happy medium. I find, sadly, that many "orthodox" churches try to preach to the level of theologians, and for the common man AND child, there is ZERO relevance. At the end of a sermon, one should not have received a history lesson. <br>The opposite extreme is the baby food example you mention.<br><br>The problem, of course, is NEITHER extreme presents the gospel. A history lesson is not the gospel, and arts and crafts are not the gospel.<br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2550 Wed May 07, 2003 8:51 AM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The problem, of course, is NEITHER extreme presents the gospel. A history lesson is not the gospel, and arts and crafts are not the gospel.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Interesting statement...how very true. I was just wondering if there was anyone in your opinion that speaks or writes on a level that a theologian and a child could relate to? Either in print, radio etc.?<br><br>Sorry to get off of the original subject.[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/sorry.gif" alt="sorry" title="sorry[/img]

#2551 Wed May 07, 2003 9:22 AM
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John Piper is that author who writes on all levels and preaches on all levels all at the same time. A child could listen to him and understand what he is saying, and for an adult, his words are often deeply convicting and sometimes mentally challenging as well. His website is Desiring God<br><br>As for that medium talked of in a previous post...I haven't seen it since the former youth minister of the church I go to now had to leave. He preached to us week after week for about a month on total depravity while at the same time giving us something to apply that to and think about. Applied theology is what this current generation of students need...and sadly it is not what they are getting.

#2552 Wed May 07, 2003 9:26 AM
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I think much of it has to do with being an effective communicator. Most theologians and, sadly, Reformed pastors, are terrible communicators. And thus the message is not presented coherently.<br>In the Reformed camp, I have found RC Sproul can communicate effectively to a wide audience. There are many Arminians who can do this....not that I want to hear all of what they say, to be sure!<br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
#2553 Wed May 07, 2003 9:28 AM
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Although Piper is not my favorite theologian, I must agree with you. Much of his teaching is effective and VERY clear!<br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2554 Wed May 07, 2003 9:44 AM
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[color:"blue"]Most theologians and, sadly, Reformed pastors, are terrible communicators.

Sorry, but I take exception to these type of sweeping characterizations. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/nono.gif" alt="nono" title="nono[/img] The fact that a man has devoted his life to the study of Theology as a profession or is "Reformed" has little to do with his ability to communicate the truth of the Scriptures. It may be your experience which is dictating your conclusion, but it certainly isn't reality. I have heard and know MANY theologians and Reformed pastors who have been excellent communicators; able to reach both young and old alike. Some well known ones were Dr. John Gerstner, James M. Boice, Charles Spurgeon, Dr. Stephen Wellum, Dr. John Armstrong, etc. As far as pastors go: Iain Murray, Tom Tyson, Daniel Wray, Brian Vos, et al. In fact, Tom Tyson, when he was pastoring Trinity Presbyterian Church had the daunting task of preparing sermons for a congregation that ranged from young children to several professors who taught at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. To be able to get a message across to someone in grade school without putting the profs to sleep was akin to miraculous. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]

The bottom line to all this is that there are many good men out there who are able to preach the truth without compromising it while being able to speak to both young Christians and old veterans alike; and they are thoroughly Reformed and theologically educated. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

In His Grace,



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Pilgrim #2555 Wed May 07, 2003 10:22 AM
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Pilgrim,<br>All I am saying is effectiveness of communication is often inversely related with educational level. For example, community college teachers with Master's or Bachelor's degrees are frequently much better educators than a University Prof with a Ph.D. <br>You will notice I used the word "most" in that earlier post. Of course there are numerous theologians and Reformed profs who are fantastic communicators. Many of those you gave would be included in such a list (although personally I can't get through one page of John Murray without falling asleep, but that's just me). But in the end, you are correct...such a statement was my personal opinion. Effectiveness of communication IS 100% subjective. <br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
#2556 Wed May 07, 2003 11:07 AM
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We love our youth pastor. Somehow, he manages to get wiggly, hyperactive junior high boys and girls to keep coming back to a venue where they discuss a verse in a small group setting (with a parent volunteer) and then come back to a large group where he gives an engaging and theologically correct Gospel message for about 5-7 minutes before turning them loose on the snack and pingpong tables . <br><br>No, you can't have him!<br><br>He is wise enough to realise that youth ministry is an ongoing process from which he will not see alot of fruit until much later down the road. He loves them enough to go to their games and events at school, eat lunch with them at school regularly, and enough to lead a deeper midweek study for the kids who want and need more. He draws parents in and lets the parents be what they are (in my case an old fogey who can't stand the CCM during pingpong but tolerates it just to be there) and also draws in godly college students willing to invest their time in these kids and who have the energy to do lock-ins and basketball parties.<br><br>He is energetic, but patient. He is fun, but grownup, like an older brother rather than like a peer. He handles them with firmness and is fearless about teaching about things like how girls should dress and how boys ought to keep their eyes and hands and thoughts policed. When he disciplines, he does so in private and with love.<br><br>In short, he is a total blessing, and I hope he sticks around for a long time to come. As far as I am concerned, all is not lost on the youth front.


Stand Fast, Craigellachie!
E_F_Grant #2557 Wed May 07, 2003 11:14 AM
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That is how our former youth minister was. We were even on the rout to having a full-blown college ministry...but since he is gone, us college types are left in leadership roles that some of us are not, in our minds, prepared for and stuff like that. I think, though, that there are good youth ministers out there. Truly called of God men devoted to students. But from personal observations, they seem rare.

#2558 Wed May 07, 2003 11:40 AM
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Stand Fast, Craigellachie!
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I am not really supposed to talk about it, but suffice it to say, he had some problems and the pastor, for the good of the congregation and the students, asked him to step down.

#2560 Wed May 07, 2003 2:02 PM
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Nuff said. Shame he is gone, from the sounds of it!


Grace is not common.
#2561 Wed May 07, 2003 3:18 PM
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problems with the senior high guy though.<br><br>This was a guy that seemed good on the surface, but it turned out later that he had BIG problems with authority, Presbyterian style. His was a Baptist background- not Reformed either.. It seems that what he really wanted to do was start his own ministry- you know the kind that features his name: John Smith Ministries. Argh, people like that just make me ill. It took us about a year to find an acceptable guy and wife to replace him, but I am glad to say we have learned a thing or two about hiring practices.<br><br>I could just wish this hadn't derailed my son's high school ministry needs at the time. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown[/img]


Stand Fast, Craigellachie!
#2562 Wed May 07, 2003 6:35 PM
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Kalled2Preach,<br><br>Mike Yakonelli spoke at a Young People's Convention last summer that several of the young people from our church attended. They came back very disturbed by his teachings and examples. I wouldn't want him teaching my kids anything. It seem to be his style to be controversial in order to get his message across. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>Good Youth Ministers are hard to find and usually don't stay too long. When you've got one that not only teaches sound doctrine, relates to the young people well, and also is a good role model you've really been blessed. If you are called by the Lord into this ministry may God bless you with the necessary skills to help shape these young lives. This is a very important ministry.<br><br><br>Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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