After work today my boss and I were engaged in a lengthy discussion about Predestination/Election and Free Will. One would not have to think very hard about who argued for what...<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> After taking him to the Scriptures we were basically right back where we started, me saying believers are predestined by God unto salvation and him saying man has the choice etc. etc.
I should've prefaced this with the fact that he is very much a "professor" of faith and after the conversation I felt that I should have stuck to simply sharing the gospel. Well now that the conversation is over it's too late for that but where do I go from here? How do you "break through" to one who knows mentally what the gospel is, enjoys having theological discussions but NEEDS the gospel to penetrate the heart. I don't believe the discussion was fruitless however. I think my emphasis on the fact that a man dead in trespasses and sins has not the "will" to come to Christ made him think a little bit and we ended on that question-"How can one who is dead in sin and consumed in wickedness with no desire to seek God will himself saved?"
Should I just leave it here and see what happens? And more importantly, if I do get the opportunity to share further what is an accurate way to present the gospel (in the distant past I have used the ol' Bill Bright Campus Crusade method <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> or the "Roman Road")...For some reason I thought Pilgrim or someone had an outline for this. If so, can I be reminded?
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
In addition to that fine article by Morton Smith, which CovenantInBlood provided a link for.... my article A Summary of the Gospel Message may be of some further assistance to you.
I would strongly recommend that you get a copy of a little book by J. I. Packer--"Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God." It's a very quick read, easy to understand but amazingly comprehensive and practical in it's small size.
I think it's the best thing out there on Christian evangelism.
Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine Hiraeth
I should've prefaced this with the fact that he is very much a "professor" of faith and after the conversation I felt that I should have stuck to simply sharing the gospel. Well now that the conversation is over it's too late for that but where do I go from here? How do you "break through" to one who knows mentally what the gospel is, enjoys having theological discussions but NEEDS the gospel to penetrate the heart. I don't believe the discussion was fruitless however. I think my emphasis on the fact that a man dead in trespasses and sins has not the "will" to come to Christ made him think a little bit and we ended on that question-"How can one who is dead in sin and consumed in wickedness with no desire to seek God will himself saved?"
I just want to share something here. I've heard comedians make comments to the effect of: "you aren't truly a great comedian until you're good as a stand up comedian." I also think that public debating takes allot of skill. So what I'm trying to get at here is that, sharing ones faith isn't easy..... at all! It's tough and it takes practice, time and biblical knowledge. It also takes heart. I have been engaged in public discussions now for about 2 years and I'm just now getting to the point where I'm pretty comfortable sharing my faith and defending reformed doctrine. It's taken allot of reading and consistently engaging myself in discussions to get better. I also want to point out that this forum has been a tremendous help. So I just write this as words of encouragement because I do exactly the same thing. I engage in discussion and then after the fact I beat my self up about what I should or should not have said. But this is the way that the Lord trains us and strengthens us. So be comforted by the fact that your doing exactly what God has put on your heart. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Keep preach'n it brother.
Dave.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
Also as a note of encouragement, remember this. The Arminian approach to witnessing is one of anxiousness and second guessing after the fact. We've all been there at one time. I should have said this, I should have done that. If only I would have mentioned.............. The Reformed Christian knows that he is responsible to present the Gospel clearly but also knows it is the power of God that will save His elect. That takes alot of pressure off of us!! We are called to be a faithful witness and the rest is up to God!!
I agree with Puritan and his response. It is a skill to be honed. One thing I like to do after the initial conversation, is to just ask questions when I see the person to keep them thinking. How do you find harmony between the old and the new testaments? Israel were God's chosen people, did He switch to plan "B" for salvation and let people choose Him from now on? Does this mean plan "A", the Law, was a failure? Does God fail at things He does? Things like that to keep them thinking.
I once had a discussion with a self professed atheist and she basically questioned the existence of a God in a world where children are murdered, abused etc. and I prayed quietly on the spot asking God to answer her question and I opened my mouth and words just came pouring out about the concept of Omnipotence and a scenario where and Omnipotent being said something it had to happen by the nature of Omnipotence. Considering this concept if such a Being said that if someone sins then the out come is death, that this had to become fact. That such a Being made a child with free will and this child chose to sin and was condemned to death having done this act. What would such a being do, considering that this Being was the most perfect parent filled with the most perfect Love that would never die, how this Being would feel compelled to save the child from this most certain death, enter the plan of God through Jesus the Christ. She sat and reflected and was challenged to reach out to this "Hypothetical Being" for herself and she said she would as her stance had been shaken somewhat. Now in all this it seems to me that she had reasoned her way into the position that she had taken based on what she felt was a solid argument and many of us being confronted with many "False Christians" or actions by christians that seem un-christian, added to the prevailing wickedness that seemingly goes unchecked, begin to argue themselves into positions where they begin to question the contents of the Bible or look at it as just stories meant to make a point on moral issues etc. and are afraid to believe to deeply and the only way to break through this is by the intervention of God as He knows the true reasons for our position and how to give us that break through that we need to make the right choice. SO a silent prayer in the midst of the discussion is an effective tool to assist someone in discovering the Truth about the Scriptures.
Delivered said: . Considering this concept if such a Being said that if someone sins then the out come is death, that this had to become fact. That such a Being made a child with free will and this child chose to sin and was condemned to death having done this act. What would such a being do, considering that this Being was the most perfect parent filled with the most perfect Love that would never die, how this Being would feel compelled to save the child from this most certain death, enter the plan of God through Jesus the Christ. She sat and reflected and was challenged to reach out to this "Hypothetical Being" for herself and she said she would as her stance had been shaken somewhat. Now in all this it seems to me that she had reasoned her way into the position that she had taken based on what she felt was a solid argument and many of us being confronted with many "False Christians" or actions by Christians that seem un-Christian, added to the prevailing wickedness that seemingly goes unchecked, begin to argue themselves into positions where they begin to question the contents of the Bible or look at it as just stories meant to make a point on moral issues etc. and are afraid to believe to deeply and the only way to break through this is by the intervention of God as He knows the true reasons for our position and how to give us that break through that we need to make the right choice. SO a silent prayer in the midst of the discussion is an effective tool to assist someone in discovering the Truth about the Scriptures.
All right but is your free will theodicy truly representative of the God of the Bible? And while I believe that many times silent prayer is an effective tool I question your explanation, ie free will theodicy, is really the answer to the question the atheist proposed to you.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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