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Anthony C.
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#2831 - Thu May 15, 2003 3:17 PM Re: Names of God [Re: li0scc0]  
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One of the great crises in evangelical Christianity today is a lack of understanding about the person of Christ. Almost every time I watch Christian television, I hear one the classical creeds of the Christian faith being denied blatantly, unknowingly, unwittingly. And of course, part of the of reason is that it is so difficult for us to understand how one person can have two natures. You are asking me the question "How?" I don't know how; I know that Jesus is one person with two natures. How can that be? Long before there was a human nature, there was a second person of the Trinity. Here the second person of the Trinity, very God of very God, God himself, was able to take upon himself a human nature. No human being could reverse the process and take upon himself a divine nature. I cannot add deity to my humanity. It's not as if Christ changed from deity into humanity. That's what I hear all the time. I hear that there was this great eternal God who suddenly stopped being God and became a man. That's not what the Bible teaches. The divine person took upon himself a human nature. We really can't understand the mystery of how this happened. But it is conceivable, certainly, that God, with his power, can add to himself a human nature and do it in such a way as to unite two natures in one person. <br><br> The most important council about this in the history of the church, whose decision has stood for centuries as the model of Christian orthodoxy and is embraced by Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Roman Catholics, Baptists -virtually every branch of Christendom- is the Council of Chalcedon. It was held in the year 451, in which the church confessed its belief about Jesus in this way: They said that we believe that Jesus is verus homus, verus Deus ~truly man, truly God. Then they went on to set boundaries for how we're to think about the way in which these two natures relate to each other. They said that these two natures are in perfect unity, without mixture, division, confusion, or separation. When we think about the Incarnation, we don't want to get the two natures mixed up and think that Jesus had a deified human nature or a humanized divine nature. We can distinguish them, but we can't tear them apart because they exist in perfect unity. <br><br>RC


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#2832 - Thu May 15, 2003 3:31 PM Re: Is Jesus Really Jesus?  
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Johannah,<br><br>The Lord Revealed in YHVH is the Lord Revealed in Yeshua (Jesus)<br><br>The LORD who revealed Himself as YHVH in the Old Testament is revealed as Yeshua (Jesus) in the New Testament. Jesus shares the same attributes as YHVH and clearly claims to be YHVH. In John 8:56-9, Jesus presents himself as the "I AM." When challenged by some Jewish leaders regarding His claim of seeing Abraham (who lived some 2000 years earlier), Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM." Those Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was claiming to be YHVH. This is clearly established when they tried to stone Him to death for what they considered blasphemy under Jewish Law. In Romans 10:9, Paul declares, "if you confess with your mouth Yeshua as LORD... you shall be saved." Immediately thereafter, in Romans 10:13, Paul backs up this declaration by quoting the Old Testament, "Whoever will call upon the name of the LORD (YHVH) will be saved" (Joel 2:32). Calling on Yeshua (Jesus) as Lord is the same as calling Him YHVH, because Yeshua (Jesus) is YHVH (LORD), the Messiah foretold throughout the entire Old Testament. <br><br><br>Wes<br><br>


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
#2833 - Sat May 17, 2003 12:49 PM Re: Names of God  

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I'm probably stepping up for a beatdown [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bash.gif" alt="bash" title="bash[/img] but after reading this thread I'm [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/dizzy.gif" alt="dizzy" title="dizzy[/img]! My question is: Does all of this really matter? I guess when I find myself trying to understand discussions such as this one and relating it to how my faith/relationship w/ the LORD, Jesus, Y'shwa, Jehovah, God (or whatever you want to call HIM or better yet want HIM to be called..and I'm not saying that you can call HIM whatever ya want...let's just say the God of the Bible) can be strengthened I really don't see the point. Rather I find it a distraction and it gives way for doubting, especially for one such as myself, who still battles with doubts from time to time. <br><br>Just for clarification. I'm not saying that discussions such as these are worthless. We should have a firm and accurate understanding on what we believe and why we believe it and its relevance to the TRUTH of God's Word. I also understand that this is a Discussion Board [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/idea.gif" alt="idea" title="idea[/img]<br><br>[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/igiveup.gif" alt="igiveup" title="igiveup[/img] Just my opinion I suppose. Any thoughts???<br>

#2834 - Sat May 17, 2003 12:58 PM Re: Names of God  

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Uhh. After my post I read this in The Book Nook. A quote posted by Joe from J.C. Ryle<br><br><br><blockquote>It is hard enough to fight the devil, the world and the flesh, without private differences in our own camp. But there is one thing that is even worse than controversy, and that is false doctrine tolerated…and permitted…There are times when controversy is not only a duty but also a benefit, and it is a plain scriptural duty to "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints.</blockquote> <br><br>Did someone say...Answered your own question kid???? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/igiveup.gif" alt="igiveup" title="igiveup[/img] again<br>

#2835 - Sat May 17, 2003 1:02 PM Re: Names of God  
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That one does say allot doesn't it? Glad you enjoyed it.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#2836 - Sat May 17, 2003 2:58 PM Re: Names of God  

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I think you did answer your own question. I'll just make one more comment on this subject:<br><br>Since a angel came from Heaven to tell Mary precisely what God wanted Jesus named, I think knowing His correct name and using it, is important. <br><br>Some day I may call Jesus, Yahshua, but I'm not doing that now. Reason being, it would cause so much confusing. It would require an explanation to every person I had a conversation with. And, even then, many people would think I was talking about another God. The damage is done, and it was done by the bible translators. Still, there is a nagging thought in my mind, that calling the King of the Universe that absurd name (Jesus) displeases Him. Every time I write the word Jesus, or say it, the thought goes through my mind, "That's not His name."

#2837 - Sat May 17, 2003 3:20 PM Re: Names of God  

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<blockquote>Some day I may call Jesus, Yahshua, but I'm not doing that now. Reason being, it would cause so much confusing. It would require an explanation to every person I had a conversation with. And, even then, many people would think I was talking about another God. The damage is done, and it was done by the bible translators. Still, there is a nagging thought in my mind, that calling the King of the Universe that absurd name (Jesus) displeases Him. Every time I write the word Jesus, or say it, the thought goes through my mind, "That's not His name."</blockquote><br><br><br><br>So what my I ask is His name and what do you call Him? Maybe it's me but I think calling the name Jesus absurd is a bit strong eh?? And who are the "many" that you are speaking of who would consider you speaking of another god when speaking of Jesus? <br><br>Every time I've ever heard the name Jesus (pre/post conversion) I've never had a doubt about that name referring to the Saviour of the world.<br><br>Last question. Do you have some conspiracy theory about the bible translators? If so, where is the substantiating evidence?

#2838 - Sat May 17, 2003 3:39 PM Re: Names of God  

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]and who are the "many" that you are speaking of who would consider you speking of another god when speaking of Jesus?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Go back and read the post slowly. What I said was, if.... I..... start...calling....Jesus..Yahshua....people....will....think....I....am...talking....about....another....God. (They....will....be....confused about....who....Yahshua......is.)<br><br>"many" = people who prefer man made traditions to biblical truth. Also, people who CHOOSE to be confused.

#2839 - Sat May 17, 2003 4:07 PM Re: Names of God  

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o...k....I....see....I....apologize....but....let's.....not.....get.....pre-school.....about.....it....though......[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>What about the other questions?

#2840 - Sat May 17, 2003 4:20 PM Re: Names of God  

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I'm going to pass on that. I think conversing with you is a waste of time.

#2841 - Sat May 17, 2003 4:40 PM Re: Names of God  

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[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img] whatever....just wanted to find out the reasoning/facts behind your point of view. If it's much easier to for you to end the discussion rather than explain, that's cool.<br><br>No love lost.[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

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