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#31031 - Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:19 AM Re: R. C. Sproul Jr. defrocked [Re: MarieP]  
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Robin Offline
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Robin  Offline
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Sproul Jr's position seems identical to the Lutheran one from what I understand of it:

My understanding of the Lutheran position is that baptized children reach an unspecific age or level of maturity where they lose their "covenant child status" and thereafter "maintain" their salvation by continuing in the church and receiving regular absolution there. That sounds identical to Sproul Jr's position.

It seems to me also that some have been willing to go to almost any lengths to legitimize paedocommunion in their Reformed denominations - even if it means turning the Reformation on its head.

Neither Sproul Jr's nor the Lutheran church's position is anything like Luther's was! Luther, going back to Augustine as well as Paul, hammered home justification by faith alone. I think he would be royally ticked off to see what has become of the church that calls itself by his name.

A very enlightening article on this "new perspective" can be found here which sheds a lot of light on the deeper theology that drives many paedocommunion advocates.

-Robin

#31032 - Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:17 AM Re: R. C. Sproul Jr. defrocked [Re: Robin]  
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Peter Offline
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Quote
Robin said:
Sproul Jr's position seems identical to the Lutheran one from what I understand of it:

My understanding of the Lutheran position is that baptized children reach an unspecific age or level of maturity where they lose their "covenant child status" and thereafter "maintain" their salvation by continuing in the church and receiving regular absolution there. That sounds identical to Sproul Jr's position.

It seems to me also that some have been willing to go to almost any lengths to legitimize paedocommunion in their Reformed denominations - even if it means turning the Reformation on its head.

Neither Sproul Jr's nor the Lutheran church's position is anything like Luther's was! Luther, going back to Augustine as well as Paul, hammered home justification by faith alone. I think he would be royally ticked off to see what has become of the church that calls itself by his name.

A very enlightening article on this "new perspective" can be found here which sheds a lot of light on the deeper theology that drives many paedocommunion advocates.

-Robin


Really and where did you learn this? Now I admit that its been years since I've been in a Lutheran Church and the catechism is but a dim memory until I pick up Luther's shorter sitting here on my book shelf but that statement is contrary to what I was taught.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#31033 - Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:08 AM Re: R. C. Sproul Jr. defrocked [Re: Peter]  
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Robin Offline
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Robin  Offline
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I wrote

Quote
My understanding of the Lutheran position is that baptized children reach an unspecific age or level of maturity where they lose their "covenant child status" and thereafter "maintain" their salvation by continuing in the church and receiving regular absolution there. That sounds identical to Sproul Jr's position.


And Boanerges replies:

Quote
Really and where did you learn this? Now I admit that its been years since I've been in a Lutheran Church and the catechism is but a dim memory until I pick up Luther's shorter sitting here on my book shelf but that statement is contrary to what I was taught.


At the LCS website, following the links to their doctrinal statements (particularly the one on baptism). Also I took the Confessing Evangelicals' word for it when they made the same assersion here.

But I have never been a Lutheran and I don't know what changes the LCMS has undergone since you were there. What I should have written was only that Sproul Jr's position seems very similar to what I think the Lutheran position is. Which actually leads to a whole 'nother question:

Why don't Sproul Jr and some of these NPP guys seek ordination in the Lutheran church (if I'm right about their theology) instead of trying to remain in the Reformed and Presbyterian community and running against the grain? Especially since many of the public teachings go against R&P doctrine.

Sorry if I goofed,
Robin

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