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#33087 - Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:48 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Quote
beloved57 said:
I don`t understand what you are saying sir, seems to me you are talking in riddles <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

Proper interpretation of Scripture does this to some. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/3stooges.gif" alt="" />.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#33088 - Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:59 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Quote
beloved57 said:
I don`t understand what you are saying sir, seems to me you are talking in riddles <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps this is due to you not using your brain, reason and logic as much as you should and relying upon "intuition"? [Linked Image]

The point being made, which I found elementary and which we have been trying to impress upon you is that the CONTEXT of the passage in question focuses upon the resurrection of Christ and not the extent of the atonement. The resurrection is one of those "facets" I mentioned. And the extent, efficacy, sufficiency, etc., of the atonement are also "facets" in their own right which we find elsewhere.... but not in this passage. Eisogesis is a danger to be avoided as it is a pit too easy to fall into. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Although the infamous "Five Points of Calvinism" are surely biblical and defensible, they are but a small part of the whole counsel of God. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
#33089 - Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:11 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Quote
beloved57 makes an embarrassing wrong judgment and writes:
You still have not convinced me that you heard it back then when you said you first believed. Believed what ? You did not believe christ died for his people like it was prohesied. You did not believe in your depravity and hopelessness , you did not believe in sovereign grace, you did not believe Jesus was God. You basically heard that christ died for sinners,aand you felt bad about your sins. I am not saying now you don`t believe the true gospel, I believe you do, but I believe, from what you have written, that you hold on to your rubbish. Instead of thanking God for revealing to you the real Christ of promise, you believe you went from point a to point b , when in fact, you had not even been regenerated and heard the truth about who christ is and what he accomplished, and for whom he accomplished it for, it is as simple as that <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

Thankfully, it is the God of my salvation before Whom I must give an account and not someone like yourself who has absolutely no knowledge of me as a person never mind what took place in my life 34 years ago. You also have no inkling about what I "heard"; assuming that I "heard" anything at all and if I did you assume it was modern Easy Believism. My "rubbish" to which you say I hold on to is nothing more than the truth once delivered unto the saints and which you can read in any of the great Reformation Confessions, Creeds and Catechisms and the writings of the Reformers and Puritans. But most importantly and upon which all those other things are founded, this "rubbish" as you so crassly call it, to your shame I might add, is the Scriptures. One of the fruits of the Spirit is meekness, which it seems has evaded you. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
#33090 - Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:36 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: Pilgrim]  
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call it what you will, when you gave me your testimony up there, you did not mention one verse, not one scripture, in fact you said you didn`t believe any of the five points of calvinism= the truth they represent, that is the Gospel of jesus christ, in that those truths set forth truthfully who he is and what he accomplished. If you did not believe those truths about christ, then you belived a false gospel, and you were decieved. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/argue.gif" alt="" />


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
#33091 - Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:48 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Quote
beloved57 said:
call it what you will, when you gave me your testimony up there, you did not mention one verse, not one scripture, in fact you said you didn`t believe any of the five points of calvinism= the truth they represent, that is the Gospel of jesus christ, in that those truths set forth truthfully who he is and what he accomplished. If you did not believe those truths about christ, then you belived a false gospel, and you were decieved. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/argue.gif" alt="" />

Oy vey.... did you go to school to learn your arrogance or did you come by it naturally? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I guess by your standards, the Ethiopian Eunuch wasn't saved, nor thousands of others which we read of in the Scriptures who had no knowledge of the "Five Points of Calvinism". So, do you believe that until someone hears and thereafter believes and is able to articulate the "Five Points" they cannot be saved?

Again... here's a good term for you: ASSENSUS. There have been and will be many who have heard the "Gospel" as defined by you, believe the truths of it and even have post-graduate degrees from institutions that are founded upon those truths who are yet dead in sins. One is not saved by simply believing the truth of the Gospel, but rather they are saved when they put faith in the PERSON of the Lord Jesus Christ, of Whom the Gospel testifies. CHRIST saves sinners, not a set of doctrines; true though they may be. One isn't saved without hearing the truth, but they surely aren't saved by or because of them.

Quote
John 1:12-13 (ASV) "But as many as received [color:"red"]him[/color], to them gave he the right to become children of God, [even] to them [color:"red"]that believe on his name[/color]: <span style="background-color:yellow">who were born</span>, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, <span style="background-color:yellow">but of God</span>."


In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
#33092 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:53 AM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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B-52,

You've arrogantly bombed onto the Highway web site to "straighten us out". You've also implicitly (and ignorantly) baited and accused people here of being "Arminian", "deceived" and of believing in a "false Gospel". Single-handedly you have made the words of Goethe ring true:

Quote

There's nothing quite as frightening as active ignorance


It is you, SIR, that desperately needs to re-examine the content of the Gospel message. It's also (besides TULIP and the Solas) about an omniscient God who humbles and lowers Himself to His own creatures.

Quote

By pride comes nothing but strife, but with the well advised is wisdom. (Prov 13:10)


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#33093 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:27 AM In bad company? [Re: Pilgrim]  
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well now pore ole pilgrim, look what you been and done givin a testimony up there and did not mention one verse, not one scripture just like that ole rascally paul when he was in front of the gipper in ax 26, why he didnt say a thing about the extant of the atonement except at the end of his speach when he up and sez would proclaim light to his own people and to the gentiles= universalism!


In Christ,
Paul S
#33094 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:41 AM Re: In bad company? [Re: Paul_S]  
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Hi paul,how are you doing sir, thanks for your respond. I beg to differ with you too. Paul never preached univeralism. He just acknowledges what scripture ( the law and the prophets acts 26: 22 22But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen ! The true gospel preacher knew that Gods elect , chosen , would not be confined to the land of palastine , but would be comprised from all over the world. James said it in acts 15 : 13-18 When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18that have been known for ages.

The high priest in jn 11: 51 , 52 51He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one

it was taught by revelation to abraham in gen 12 : 2, 3

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

In fact paul refers back to gen 12 as being gospel truth, lets look at gal 3:8

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice it says God would justify , not offer, the true gospel is always presented in what God will do and to whom he does it for ! Now paul you appealed to a passage of scripture in acts 26 to prove that paul did not preach limited atonement to agrippa, but in all reality , the verse or passage teaches limited atonement , that it is limited to the elect in all nations ! remember that paul was appealing to old test scripture , the law and prophets ! You show me anywhere in the oldtestament where universal salvation is proclaimed !


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
#33095 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:45 AM Re: Gospel truth [Re: Adopted]  
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How are you sir ? I am sorry you are taking it that way, my apologies


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
#33096 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:12 AM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Beloved,

If I am taking your posts wrong, why apologize? There is evidence for what I said.

Please be careful to not make ad-hominem insinuations on this web site. For you to call a perfectly legitimate and understandable post a "riddle" and a true conversion "deceit" is what angered me. Please get to know us before you assume conclusions which aren't true. You might even stay around for awhile.

All good web logs have only one obnoxious "know it all" and that job has already (unofficially) been given to me. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#33097 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:31 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: Adopted]  
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No probem, but the reason for the comment riddle, was because all the previous comments , should have made clear that I understand the overall context of 1 cor 15 , yes it is speaking about and leading into the resurrection, I have no problem with that . I agree , agree, agree, agree <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" />

My point is sir that in leading up to that subject, paul refers to the gospel message that he preached to them in the past. Do you agree ? And he stated that the gospel message that he preached concerned how that christ died for our ( the brethern, the elect, the sheep, the chosen ones, the children God gave me , those that the father gave me)sins. Sir all I am saying is that the gospel that paul preached contained the truth of limited atonement ! I don`t apologize for that, trust me. Thats the word of God.

Now me, I don`t understand how someone was converted before they believed the gospel which liited atonement is part of according to paul, in fact in practically every sermon that is preached in acts !


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
#33098 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:04 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Quote
beloved57 said:


My point is sir that in leading up to that subject, paul refers to the gospel message that he preached to them in the past. Do you agree ? And he stated that the gospel message that he preached concerned how that christ died for our ( the brethern, the elect, the sheep, the chosen ones, the children God gave me , those that the father gave me)sins. Sir all I am saying is that the gospel that paul preached contained the truth of limited atonement ! I don`t apologize for that, trust me. Thats the word of God.

Now me, I don`t understand how someone was converted before they believed the gospel which liited atonement is part of according to paul, in fact in practically every sermon that is preached in acts !


The answer lies within your response. ANY AND EVERY TIME we start a sentence with "I dont understand" the statement this claim is made against is true.

Just because YOU dont understand it does not make it false Darryl.

You also assume that everyone Paul preached to could read and had a copy of all his letters. Where is limted atonement in his letter to Philemon? I am sure you can find it with the lenses you use, but it is not there. So was Paul unregenerate at the time he wrote this letter? If you want to discuss 1 Cor 15, then stay there. You do not need to muddy the waters with acts.

Paul spoke about the resurrection and the second advent more than limited atonement, yet for some odd reason one can have misunderstandings on the eschaton and still be regenerate, but let one be a tad amis on speaking your shibboleth of limited atonement, and they are lost.

Next time you would like to start a thread with a question, provide the answer YOU ALREADY have before imitating a wolf with wool


There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
#33099 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:20 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: beloved57]  
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Beloved,

Quote

Now me, I don`t understand how someone was converted before they believed the gospel which limited atonement is part of according to paul, in fact in practically every sermon that is preached in acts !


I think I'll just let Dr. Piper speak for me here.

Quote

"And when you believe as you ought to believe, you will discover that your belief -- like all other spiritual blessings -- was purchased by the death of Christ. The sin of unbelief was covered by the blood in your case, and therefore the power of God's mercy was released through the cross to subdue your rebellion and bring you to the Son. You did not make the cross effective in your life by faith. The cross became effective in your life by purchasing your faith". - John Piper


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#33100 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:31 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: Adopted]  
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I like what he says, when you believe what you ought to believe is key in that statement !


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
#33101 - Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:45 PM Re: Gospel truth [Re: Joe k]  
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Hi Sir, it does not matter how you spin it , If you believed the gospel , you believed in limited atonement. By the way, faith in the gospel does not get a person saved, it only makes manifest that they have been chosen by God. For your information, any letter paul wrote , it was to those who had professed faith in the true gospel. But if you want to know the contents of that gospel in a nutshell, see 1cor 15:1-4. It does not matter if a person could read , or write, that does not hinder The Holy Spirit of God from revealing the truth of the gospel. Lets look at john 16: 13, 14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Acts 20: 24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me葉he task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
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