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Tom
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Confusion! Please help #35365
Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:26 AM
Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 326
South Africa
Johan Offline OP

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I am at present reading Poythress' "God Centered Biblical Interpretation". On the back cover of the book is a recommendation by DA Carson. Also, somewhere on this site I also read that Monergism Books is recommended and when you read how they select their books then you get the impression that they sell books from trustworthy authors in the reformed tradition. So, one of the books is DA Carson's "Exegetical Fallacies" which is highly commended on Monergism Books. However, when searching the web for DA Carson you also come across negative criticism about DA Carson. See for example

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/bewareof-da-carson.html

For example, the following is said:

Quote

D.A. Carson is not a man that fundamentalists should be following. He walks in the most radical of New Evangelical circles, being associated with organizations such as Christianity Today and the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS), both of which are deeply compromised theologically. Christianity Today has been one of the chief voices for New Evangelicalism for 50 years. It has promoted everything from Billy Graham to Fuller Theological Seminary to Robert Schuller to Karl Barth.


and

Quote

Do the fundamentalists who are distributing Carsonís book agree with these things? Those fundamentalist schools that are selling Carsonís book in their bookstores and recommending it to their students, are they also warning about Carsonís apostasy?


The book refered to above is not "Exegetical Fallacies" but "The Inclusive Language Debate".

This is rather confusing. Can anyone shed some light for me on DA Carson in particular but also more generally on which authors are really trustworthy in the sense that they really
follow the reformed tradition.

Johan

Re: Confusion! Please help [Re: Johan] #35366
Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:09 AM
Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:09 AM
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Johan Offline OP

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PS to my question: It seems to me that I should also have asked who David W Cloud is, ie. the person criticizing DA Carson.

Johan

Re: Confusion! Please help [Re: Johan] #35367
Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:38 PM
Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:38 PM
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Quote
Johan said:
PS to my question: It seems to me that I should also have asked who David W Cloud is, ie. the person criticizing DA Carson.

Johan,

1) Vern Poythress: I studied under Dr. Poythress when I was a WTS. At that time, he was quite solid in regard to Reformed Theology. But that was about 26 years ago. As you know much has changed over the past 20+ years. I haven't kept in touch with him so I have no idea where he stands now theologically. But my sincere hopes is that he hasn't "gone over" to NPP/FV as some of my other profs have. His older books are excellent.

2) D.A. Carson: IMHO, Dr. Carson is a "mixed bag". Much of what I've read by him is quite good. But some other things have not been so good. As with any man's writings, you have to read with discernment. We are all fallible.

3) David Cloud: Oy vey... Rank Fundamentalist who has a very strong aversion to anything that is even a shadow of Calvinism. Generally speaking what he writes is worth little, IMHO, since he holds to semi-Pelagianism and classic Dispensationalism. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Confusion! Please help [Re: Johan] #35368
Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:24 PM
Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:24 PM
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The Way of Life site was one of the first sites I found when I got online. And I did read it for a while. Then I found where the man had several dozen sermons online at SermonAudio.com. I stopped paying attention to the man after I heard his sermon where he announced: Every man who doesn't wear their hair as short as he does is going to hell.

I also recall he had a big bone to pick with contemporary music. And not for any biblical reason, that I recall. I can at least respect a person when they say, "Contemporary Christian music is too man-centered and not enough God-centered". But his criticism was more on technical grounds, he didn't like the choice of instruments, or the musical style (he doesn't like drums because they're "pagan".) I figure if you're going to denounce something, do it on biblical grounds, not on personal preferences that fall more under the heading of Christian liberty.

It's been a while so I could be wrong, but I also believe he's KJV-only. I don't recall him pronouncing anyone to hell for reading the NASB or anything else, but he sure encourages you to read the KJV. I recall he even wrote a book defining the more archaic words in the KJV so you wouldn't have an excuse to not read it.

And even his criticism of Carson that you quoted sounded right up his alley... apparently we determine who we should and should not listen to, based upon what organizations they are a member of? I sure hope that wasn't the sole argument in his article!

The man just seems to have a rather unforgiving spirit, and is calling things sinful that I don't see the Bible saying is a sin. There's my 2-cents.

Re: Confusion! Please help [Re: Pilgrim] #35369
Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:49 PM
Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:49 PM
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Quote
3) David Cloud: Oy vey... Rank Fundamentalist who has a very strong aversion to anything that is even a shadow of Calvinism. Generally speaking what he writes is worth little, IMHO, since he holds to semi-Pelagianism and classic Dispensationalism.


And by rank you mean that he smells. The man doesn't know his history, gives credence to questionable sources and makes ignorance look like a good thing. He is absolutely one of the reasons IFB get such a bad rap.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Confusion! Please help [Re: Johan] #35370
Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:53 AM
Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:53 AM
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Johan Offline OP

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Well, thanks for the feedback so far.

Two things: (1) I have made a mistake to say that DA Carson wrote a recommendation on the backcover of Poythress' book. He wrote the foreword in Mark Dever's "The deliberate church". John Frame wrote the recommendation on the backcover of Poythress' book. (2) Pilgrim, you were uncertain at Poythress' position today. I have now read the book once (a second reading is necessary for me) and I would say that you don't need to worry. I think it is worth reading.

Johan


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