Search

Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 13,436
Joined: April 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,638
Posts51,173
Members927
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,436
Tom 3,455
chestnutmare 2,915
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,758
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 21
Pilgrim 14
John_C 3
Johan 2
Meta4 1
Recent Posts
Mexican illegal immigration into the USA
by Anthony C.. Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:32 PM
Presuppositional Debate
by Tom. Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:12 PM
Question about sermons
by Johan. Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:54 AM
Same sex atrraction sinful then what?
by Tom. Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:35 AM
TWU Denied Law School Accreditation
by Tom. Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:14 AM
Reformed Confessions of Faith and the Traditional Text
by Pilgrim. Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:43 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35894
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 AM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
I am taking a little sabattical from posting here after receiving close to ten prescriptive sermons/books and as I am new here I would like to leave a little puddle of inspiration for ye all to splash in.

After reading the introduction to both Frued and Jung, I discovered that they both got pretty close to discovering the secret to LIFE. It is a pity that both of them were not there the day that Jesus spoke with the women at the well of Summaria. I am sure Frued would have been double back twisting and Jung would have run all the way to Summaria with her just to see what the people would say, either way they would have missed what so many Charasmatics miss.

It is written out for us at the beginning of Romans 8 and in fact continues right on throughout Romans 8. It is the expression of the answer to the dilemma of ALL mankind.

I have often read that and was told Paul had reached a point of confusion...what?..he was teaching and expressing the anguish of the human condition. We just do not have the power to live victoriously, to walk in deliverance from the things that mess us up.

His answer is summed up in the title to this thread: "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"...

Now you may be a little perplexed, so why not turn to the passage and see if you can interpret it.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ? What exactly do you think that means...I know that if Freud and Jung were alive they would have both had their minds whirring as they awaited the description of what I believe is the solution to life aboard this crazy planet, not some crazy solution to repression, or to the mystery of synchronicity, but something far more PROFOUND...ready ? ...Well let's have your interpretation...

Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:02 AM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35895
Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:26 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

Straw said:
It is written out for us at the beginning of Romans 8 and in fact continues right on throughout Romans 8. It is the expression of the answer to the dilemma of ALL mankind.


It is the Charismatics that have "screwed up". <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bingo.gif" alt="" />

Quote

There is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. [Romans 8:1, NASB]


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35896
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:19 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Hi Denny,

Can you see the title of this thread ? Just look up above what is written here...okay...it reads, 'The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus' --- Do you know what that means ? (This is a little like 'Ace Combat'...if you look hard enough you will eventually see the square and when it goes red you can fire.) Simply put, all this thread is about, is explaining the meaning of the title. Okay...so go on make my day. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bigglasses.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:24 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35897
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:41 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Quote
2. For through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul speaks about “the law of the Spirit of life.” That the Holy Spirit is life in his very essence and also imparts life, both physical and spiritual, is clear from ever so many passages of Scripture. The basis for this doctrine is probably found already in Gen. 1:1; Ps. 51:11; 104:30. For closer references see John 6:63; II Cor. 3:6; Gal. 6:8; and do not forget Rom. 8:11. The law of the Spirit of life is the forceful and effective operation of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and lives of God’s children. It is the very opposite of “the law of sin and death,” for which see on 7:23, 25. Just as the law of sin produces death, so also the law, or ruling factor, of the Spirit of life brings about life. Cf. Rom. 6:23. It does this “through Christ Jesus,” that is, on the basis of the merits of his atonement, and by means of the vitalizing power of union with him.

The question arises, “If in Rom. 7:14-8:2 Paul throughout speaks about himself as a believer, how can he say not only, “I am carnal, sold as a slave to sin ... a prisoner” (7:14, 23); but also, “Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death”? How can a slave and prisoner also be a free person? Does not this very contradiction show that we have erroneously interpreted Rom. 7:14, 23?

The answer is, “Not at all.” On the contrary, when we read these passages — both 7:14, 23 and 8:1, 2, we say, “How wonderful is the Word of God! What a true picture it draws of the person I really am! On the one hand I am a slave, a prisoner, for sin has such control over me that I cannot lead a sinless life (Jer. 17:9; Matt. 6.12; I John 1:8, 10). Yet, on the other hand, I am a free person, for though Satan tries with all his might and trickery to keep me from doing what is right — such as trusting God for my salvation, invoking him in prayer, rejoicing in him, working for his causes, etc., he cannot throughout stop me from doing so. He cannot completely prevent me from experiencing the peace of God that transcends all understanding. The sense of victory, which I possess in principle even now and will possess in perfection in the future, sustains me in all my struggles. I rejoice in the freedom which Christ has earned for me!” (cf. Gal. 5:1).

When an interpreter of 7:21-8:2 limits Christian experience to what is found in 7:22, 25a, 8:1, 2, leaving out 7:21, 23, 24, 25b, does he not resemble the musician who tries to play an elaborate piece on an organ with a very restricted number of octaves, or on a harp with many broken strings? (William Hendrkisen, New Testament Commentary, Baker: Grand Rapids, 1980, Vol I, pp. 245, 246.)


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35898
Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:25 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
Simply put, all this thread is about, is explaining the meaning of the title. Okay...so go on make my day.


I can't hardly believe that you took offense to what I said? This is even when the "spirit" of what I said was initially in agreement with your post!

Here is the meaning to the title to me:

There is no "Spirit" that is not in union with God's words and commands.

Quote

I slap your "spirit" on the snout. [Martin Luther to the Charismatic "enthusiasts" of his day]


After all, this is in a Ex-Charismatic thread and I don't play "Ace Combat".

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35899
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:23 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Thank-you Pilgrim,
I take you are familiar with the J.F.B Commentary ?

Quote

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free--rather, "freed me"--referring to the time of his conversion, when first he believed.

from the law of sin and death--It is the Holy Ghost who is here called "the Spirit of life," as opening up in the souls of believers a fountain of spiritual life (see on Cmt. on John 7:38); just as He is called "the Spirit of truth," as "guiding them into all truth" (John 16:13), and "the Spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord" (Isa 11:2), as the inspirer of these qualities. And He is called "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," because it is as members of Christ that He takes up His abode in believers, who in consequence of this have one life with their Head. And as the word "law" here has the same meaning as in Romans 7:23, namely, "an inward principle of action, operating with the fixedness and regularity of a law," it thus appears that "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" here means, "that new principle of action which the Spirit of Christ has opened up within us--the law of our new being." This "sets us free," as soon as it takes possession of our inner man, "from the law of sin and death" that is, from the enslaving power of that corrupt principle which carries death in its bosom. The "strong man armed" is overpowered by the "stronger than he"; the weaker principle is dethroned and expelled by the more powerful; the principle of spiritual life prevails against and brings into captivity the principle of spiritual death--"leading captivity captive." If this be the apostle's meaning, the whole verse is to this effect: That the triumph of believers over their inward corruption, through the power of Christ's Spirit in them, proves them to be in Christ Jesus, and as such absolved from condemnation. But this is now explained more fully.


I kept thinking of Norman Grubb's book about Rees Howells. Oh to be so willing to be led, to walk, to live in the Spirit.


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35900
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:54 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Denny,
Quote

You said:
'It is the Charismatics that have "screwed up".'


I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground. If your first comment-ary was vague, your second one is completely confusing.

Quote

You said:
Here is the meaning to the title to me:
There is no "Spirit" that is not in union with God's words and commands.


I was led to Christ by a Pentecostal, spent 4 or 5 years maturing and growing under the preaching of a very profound Pentecostal ( Pastor Noel Cromhout - 'Ground Level Faith' who is assitant Pastor in Schenektady - Calvary Tabernacle A.O.G.) and though I left and spent many years floating from Church to Church getting all sorts of wierd ideas, the foundations that were laid by this truly wise man of God, have stood me in good stead against the prevailing climate of false teachers. If you like I would be more than willing to send you a set of his sermons on the book of 'Romans'.

Just remember not everyone who was a Pentecostal or Charismatic regarded everything that happened as being wrong. There is much in the Pentecostal and Charismatic experience that was most tender and blessed and certainly there were 'wolves' among the sheep as there are in every single move of the Spirit, hence the schizms etc.

Just remember not everyone who went through the Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal Revival etc... 'screwed up' <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />


Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:01 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35901
Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Quote
straw said:
I take you are familiar with the J.F.B Commentary ?

I have the full 3 Volume Eerdmans edition (1976 reprint). It is not a commentary I use often due to theological differences between the authors and my own which are grounded in the doctrines held by the Reformers and Puritans.

Quote
straw said:
I kept thinking of Norman Grubb's book about Rees Howells. Oh to be so willing to be led, to walk, to live in the Spirit.

Well, your mention of Rees Howells is actually ironically apropos for the main theme of this forum: "ExCharisma". Mr. Howells is a man of some questionable verity but who is lauded as a true "divine" by those in the Pietist and Charismatic movements among others. Dr. J.I. Packer, coincidently, uses Rees Howell as a negative example, i.e., one who is not to be esteemed as an example to follow in part III of his multi-part article, "True Guidance". Here is one of two quotes where Packer mentions Rees Howell:


1. If anyone today receives a direct disclosure from God on any matter at all, it will have no canonical significance: that is, it will not be meant to become part of the church's rule of faith and life, nor will the church as such be under any obligation to acknowledge the disclosure as revelation: nor will anyone merit blame for suspecting that the disclosure was not from God at all. If the alleged disclosure is a prediction (as when, for instance, Rees Howells, founder of the Bible College of South Wales, Predicted in the 30s. in his book God Challenges the Dictators, that there would be no second World War), Moses assures us that there is not even a prima facie case for treating it as genuinely from God until it is seen to have come true (Deut. 18:21 f.). If the alleged disclosure is a directive (as when, for instance, a leader claims that God told him to found a hospital or university or mission or crusade of some kind), any who associate themselves with his project should do so because wisdom tells them, that it is needed, realistic, and God honoring, not because the leader tells them that God directly commanded him (and by implication them) to attempt it.


You can access all of part III here: True Guidance (Part III)

Those who have lived after the close of the Canon and claim to have direct revelation from God, produce miracles, prophecy, etc., are to be avoided. God speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures and does not engage in tête-à-tête conversations with individuals. See here: Does God Speak to us Today Apart from the Bible?, by Dr. R. Fowler White.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Pilgrim] #35902
Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
'Those who have lived after the close of the Canon and claim to have direct revelation from God, produce miracles, prophecy, etc., are to be avoided. God speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures and does not engage in tête-à-tête conversations with individuals.'

Pilgrim,

God has spoken to us by His Son, and certainly the Scriptures were given to make us wise unto salvation which is by Jesus Christ, and also that these Scriptures are only a fraction of all that Jesus spoke, but what we are given is to enable us to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Further to that we have been given the Holy Spirit our teacher, comforter, who guides us into all truth. Since 1976 when I was in a beginners Bible Study, I heard His Spirit speaking to my heart and teaching me. I fear you are teaching from a very dry well my friend.

The day that God stops speaking to us by the Holy Spirit will be a most frightening day, but to consciously resist the teacher, comforter and the One who is given to us to lead us into all truth, is to lean solely upon one's own intellect.

I remember how it was when I read the Bible like Appollos. Then the Lord baptised me in the Holy Spirit and for the first time I was able to really hear God.

It seems that my time here has drawn suddenly to a close. I must say when I was getting all the stuff to read, I realized that I was in an intellectual cave, it is time to go down to BIOLA University and pull out those old copies by a long forgotten Headmaster and read about the more excellent way.

Sela Vie,


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35903
Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:36 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
Needs to get a Life
Wes  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Straw,

When you opened this thread you promised a puddle of inspiration. Well, I see the puddle..... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

God has accomplished salvation once-for-all, in Christ, He has also spoken His word, once-for-all, in Christ and in those whom Christ authorized and empowered by His Spirit (Heb. 1:1-2; 2:3, 4; Matt. 16:15-19; John 14:26; Eph. 2:19, 20). With the completion of salvation in Christ comes the cessation of revelation. Consequently, the church now lives by a "Scripture only" principle of authority. To tamper with this principle invites a host of theological and pastoral problems. The proof of this observation can be seen in the effect of these "prophecies" upon many who are being led far from the sufficiency of the gospel itself. Its finality and complete sufficiency is, in reality, subtly assaulted by these claims to modern prophecies.

The Bible gives us no reason to expect that God will speak to His children today apart from the Scriptures. Those who teach otherwise need to explain to God’s children how these words "freshly spoken from heaven" can be so necessary and strategic to God’s highest purposes for their lives when their Father does nothing to ensure that they will ever actually hear those words. Indeed, they must explain why this is not quenching the Spirit. Moreover, the promise of such guidance inevitably diverts attention from the Scriptures, particularly in the practical and pressing concerns of life. Let us never underestimate just how serious this diversion really is. In the Bible the church hears God’s true voice; in the Scriptures, we know that He is speaking His very words to us. Advocates of words "freshly spoken from heaven" should beware: By diverting attention from the Scriptures, they quench the Spirit who is speaking therein.

Does God Speak Today Apart From The Bible?


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35904
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
straw said:

Further to that we have been given the Holy Spirit our teacher, comforter, who guides us into all truth. Since 1976 when I was in a beginners Bible Study, I heard His Spirit speaking to my heart and teaching me. I fear you are teaching from a very dry well my friend.


The "dry well" of Scripture? First you acted as though the Bible is your final authority on all these things, but now you've introduced another principle: personal revelation from the Spirit. How is this to be judged by Scripture? Is it only those things which contradict Scripture which are to be judged unspiritual? If the Spirit tells you to eat at McDonald's today, how do you know it's the Spirit? Do you get a "feeling" that you can describe, so that we all may also know when the Spirit speaks directly to us?

Quote
The day that God stops speaking to us by the Holy Spirit will be a most frightening day, but to consciously resist the teacher, comforter and the One who is given to us to lead us into all truth, is to lean solely upon one's own intellect.


Praise God, we have the God-breathed Scriptures by which the Holy Spirit constantly speaks to us!


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35905
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
straw said:

I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground. If your first comment-ary was vague, your second one is completely confusing.


There is no middle ground between the eternal truth and total sufficiency of Holy Scripture, and every wind of doctrine that blows out of Charismaticism.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35906
Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:35 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:35 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Though not charismatic myself, I think the topic may be more intimating a situation like this:

You pray in the morning that the Lord would send someone who needs the gospel in your direction. During the day they come along, and you are able to share the good news with them. After hearing the gospel they readily decide to receive the Saviour. The next moment you are alone, and are able to think on what just transpired that day, it turns to a time of direct ministration of the Spirit of God.

As described here…..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God


Last edited by By the Blood; Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:47 PM.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35907
Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Quote
By the Blood said:
Though not charismatic myself, I think the topic may be more intimating a situation like this:

You pray in the morning that the Lord would send someone who needs the gospel in your direction. During the day they come along, and you are able to share the good news with them. After hearing the gospel they readily decide to receive the Saviour. The next moment you are alone, and are able to think on what just transpired that day, it turns to a time of direct ministration of the Spirit of God.

As described here…..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God



Welcome to the boards 'By the Blood' -- Yes! -- Romans 8:16 'The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God' (Splashing in the puddle <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" /> )

This passage is probably one of those that most of us just skip over, and never get wet. Splish, splash taking a bath.

Quote

'That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.'


1 John 1: 1-3

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cloud9.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35908
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:58 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground.


They don't come to this forum to discover middle ground, they come here for healing after they've been spiritually assaulted by the Pentacostals.

It's either about your "full" gospel and the righteousness that you believe is within you, or it is about the righteousness that is found only (Sola) within Him.

There IS NO middle ground.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Last edited by Adopted; Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:43 AM.

Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35909
Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:21 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
The Holy Spirit certainly illuminates the Scriptures, awakening our hearts and opening our minds (John 6:45, 1st Cor 2:9-12), but new prophetic revelations are not of God. The Bible is not still being written. The gifts of the Spirit had a very specific purpose for a very specific group of people at a very specific time in history.

Several excellent articles demonstrating that can be found here.

-Robin

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Robin] #35910
Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:55 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Quote
Robin said:
The Holy Spirit certainly illuminates the Scriptures, awakening our hearts and opening our minds (John 6:45, 1st Cor 2:9-12), but new prophetic revelations are not of God. The Bible is not still being written. The gifts of the Spirit had a very specific purpose for a very specific group of people at a very specific time in history.

Several excellent articles demonstrating that can be found here.

-Robin


Robin,

Romans Chapter 8...and specifically verse 2 are full to the brim with references to the Holy Spirit. This chapter is not really about the Gifts of the Spirit, but probably more in line with the fruits of the Spirit as mentioned in Galatians 5:22 against which there is not law, so this LAW is the Spirit's power over sin and death.

Don't bother with any more article references I have 16+ to read now and I don't expect being finished by next year Spring <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Robin] #35911
Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:02 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

Robin said:
The Holy Spirit certainly illuminates the Scriptures, awakening our hearts and opening our minds


I agree and would never deny this. This is not, however, what the Pentacostals/Charismatics propose. They propose direct and specific revelation from God, outside and separated from the mediation of His words.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Attached Files-Click on Image to view full size.
64042-pope1.jpg (213 downloads)

Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35912
Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:28 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Quote
Adopted said:
Quote

Robin said:
The Holy Spirit certainly illuminates the Scriptures, awakening our hearts and opening our minds


I agree and would never deny this. This is not, however, what the Pentacostals/Charismatics propose. They propose direct and specific revelation from God, outside and separated from the mediation of His words.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny,

What exactly does this comment have to do with explaining what Romans 8:2 means. You posts seem to be very vague and right off-topic. Pehaps you might consider starting a thread of your own, where you can grind your axe at the Pope-Charismatics-Pentecostals. I read the mission of this forum and it seems you are making it your private, 'Inquisition'. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35913
Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:08 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
Pehaps you might consider starting a thread of your own, where you can grind your axe at the Pope-Charismatics-Pentecostals. I read the mission of this forum and it seems you are making it your private, 'Inquisition'.


Perhaps you should have posted your question in another forum as this one is for ex-Charismatics? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35914
Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:23 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Denny,

I have listened to many of Richard Bennett's lectures, and what struck me was that his approach was filled with 'gentleness and respect'. Now if this is only for ex-Charismatics then why would Robin have written this :

Quote

Check here often - there are many more "refugees" and folks waiting for their chance to jump out of the Charismatic frying pan than most people know. Many are scared to jump, but even more scared that what they're jumping into could be worse than the frying pan.

One word of caution. Emotions tend to run high among folks who are exploring unfamiliar territory. It's scary to realize you've been wrong - and to think there's no way to be sure of what's right. Be kind to each other, and tolerant of different ways of saying things. The early part of this journey out of chaos is hard enough without harsh criticism.

This is a safe, sane place to make that journey.

-Robin


Please note that 'Pilgrim' already posted a commentary on page 1, and I reciprocated with another; hoping for an intelligent conversation, but your picture of the Roman Pontiff and earlier comments about 'Charismatics' is not really what I had in mind when I asked my question.

You are right-off topic.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


Last edited by straw; Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:51 AM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35915
Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:58 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
I have listened to many of Richard Bennett's lectures, and what struck me was that his approach was filled with 'gentleness and respect'.


Richard Bennett is gentle but hardly "respectful" of the RCC. He has dedicated his life in love of the brethren, in an attempt to prevent the lies, distortions of Scripture, and criminal spiritual abuse of the RCC sacramental system.

You may accuse me of being "angry" if you wish but there are gentle souls comming into this forum that do not need to be re-indoctrinated with the Charismatic (unscriptural) emphasis and mysticism of the "Spirit".

Quote

"God speaks to us through Scripture and through the man who teaches Scripture. He who hears is not deceived but we are to flee from special revelations concerning the faith which are satanic delusions." Martin Luther


I read and was ready to respond to this post before it was edited, and I thank you for reconsidering and making your deletions.

Now, if this post is still vague and off thread, I apologize.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35916
Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:34 PM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Denny,
When I was eleven, I was taught the Our Father by my Grandmother who was staunch Roman Catholic, my Mother-in-law is staunch Roman Catholic and my wife used to be; so when I say that Richard Bennett is respectful, I mean that he is VERY respectful. In each lecture and especially the one's about the Mass and the Eucherist; his manner is MOST respectful towards those who might be Roman Catholics who are listening. Perhaps that is why he is so used of God in leading Priests and Nuns to Jesus. This is also the manner which is prescribed by Scripture: that we should be always willing to give an account for the hope that is within us, with 'gentleness and respect' --- This after all is the 'law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus' or certainly an aspect to the fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:22-26.

Perhaps a fitting close to this thread.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Quote

You may accuse me of being "angry" if you wish but there are gentle souls comming into this forum that do not need to be re-indoctrinated with the Charismatic (unscriptural) emphasis and mysticism of the "Spirit".


I think you will find my new thread, 'Cameleon' is addressing the rampant effects of 'Mysticism' right across the spectrum of Protestant and Roman Catholic Demoninations. We are probably in the 'sickest' time spiritually ever, when Jesus is ready to spew out the lukewarm. It is time for a call to repentance --- a nice kick-back to my first thread at The-highway.com (Saved an NOT know it ?)

ps. btw. I really liked your quote by Martin Luther.
Quote

"God speaks to us through Scripture and through the man who teaches Scripture. He who hears is not deceived but we are to flee from special revelations concerning the faith which are satanic delusions." --- Martin Luther

You just need to remember that Luther was right in the middle of the Apostate Church who believed that the Apocryphal writings, the Canons and writings of the Fathers were also 'the Word of God' --- He needed to draw the line in the sand with a very broad stick. Ofcourse, we can never move forward in our growth without both the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit working in our 'hearts, minds, souls and bodies' --- Explaining this would have been pointless for many of those whom Luther was addressing were not even saved yet. Scripture certainly makes us wise unto salvation, but Jesus did provide something so wonderful for us that the Father gives us.

'If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him ?'

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by straw; Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:56 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35917
Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:51 PM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
To be completely clear: This is a forum for EX Charismatics - former charismatics who have the courage to question the validity of their former beliefs and yet who have not taken the route taken by many - rejecting Christianity, supposing all Christians to be like the ones they have known. Those who seek to learn the truth only from the Scriptures and not from some "gifted" teacher with some "special anointing" who has some supposed direct hot line to God.

Regarding the original topic, I believe the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus refers to the principle of the justification and sanctification of believers.

Aircraft can fly, not because God repeals or suspends the law of gravity for them, but because a higher law applies, transcending and overpowering gravity. In the same way, the law of sin and death - that which applies to the flesh and is described in Romans chapter 7 - is overcome by the higher law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

"Therefore," Paul writes, "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1), for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has (past tense) set you free from the law of sin and death (verse 2)."

Sanctification is a two-sided coin. In one sense it is an already accomplished fact in the courts of heaven, and in another sense an ongoing process whereby the Holy Spirit applies Christ's finished work to the hearts of His people on earth. Both sides of the coin are described in Romans 6, 7, and 8.

I'm afraid I have no idea what Freud and Jung have to do with it... since Paul is not describing any sort of psychiatric malady or process in his epistle; but rather a spiritual and sovereign work of God.

-Robin

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Robin] #35918
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:49 PM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Robin,

Yes, you put it so well. Oh, about Jung and Frued. Well, I guess you will need to read them a little to understand that they were trying to heal 'the mind' of it's many maladies, and along with those were very complex issues to broad for this tiny forum. Jung was a very complex man who wrestled with his own personality as did Frued, and I was drawing a parallel to Paul's cry, "WHO SHALL DELIVER ME FROM THIS BODY OF DEATH ?" --- My point is that if either of these two very intense gentleman had merely opened Romans 8 (or Romans period.) they would have discovered the answer to what tore up their lives in searching to heal what can only be healed by the Gospel. In my first commentary by JFB this was most clearly expressed and many others concur. It is something that drew the full attention of the Apostle Paul, who preached not without the anointing of the Holy Spirit's power and neither should we, or then we should just post up Bible verses, this faith is alive and this Word of Life is living and sharper than any two edged Sword. The Sword of the ........yes, exactly. We cannot divide the Spirit and the Word

Here is yet another puddle of inspiration. Enjoy. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" />

(1 Corinthians 2 : 9 - 16)

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Just a little story to lighten the way.

When I was only nineteen I was living at the YMCA and we used to eat in a dining room together. Students, University students, young men from every walk of life...On one day a young man who had just completed his degree in Psychology joined a friend and myself at the table.

During the discussion I asked him if he knew what it was that seperated people. He was perplexed and shook his head. I was pretty puzzled too, here was this guy who had burned up his credit studying a degree that was to help him heal peoples minds and he did not the most elementary of all puzzles.

I replied, "Sin" and went on to explain to him how sin also seperated us from God.

The next morning as I was preparing to go to work there was a most horrendous banging upon my door. It was this same young man, 'Colin Blake' and when I opened the door I found him standing there beaming from ear to ear.

He had gone to his room that night and opened his old Bible and started trying to find the answers to the questions he did not find a University. That night he went on his knees and asked Christ to forgive him for his sin and to be His Saviour. He had a book in his hand and it was filled with Bible verse that he read to me as he sat on my bed bubbling over with joy.

I have never forgotten that and will never, to see how the Lord gave to a Psychologist the most powerful lesson of all, and it was right there in God's Holy Book.

I have spent some time studying Dr Jay E. Adams' notes and those of Dr. Richard Ganz and it is amazing how the Lord is able to bring healing to so many lives through these men who were once students of Psychology, Psychiatry etc, and the principles were right there in God's Holy Book, no doubt the Holy Spirit did such wonderful work in these men's lives and continues to empower them to be effective in ministry.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" /> goodnight...

Last edited by straw; Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:04 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35919
Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:33 AM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:33 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


The problem is that the church of Sardis (represented by the Reformed church) is diametrically opposed to the church of Pergamos (represented by the Pentecostal church). Only the church of Ephesus (represented by the Independent Fundamental church) is opposed to Pergamos at the same level. The issue is that Sardis tends towards deadness, and Pergamos tends towards the hyper side of life, each of which are totally incompatible with each other, and Christ for that matter.


Wandering a bit here:

If one was to put Christ in the center of a circle and draw the seven churches of Revelation evenly spaced around Him. Starting at 12:00, it would go something like this: Ephesus, Sardis, Smyrna, Philadelphia, Pergamos, Thyatira, and end with Laodicea. This isn’t an absolute for all doctrines, but the ones closer together often times can be more amicable towards the others, whereas those further apart tend to have larger differences.

There are a few people saved in each category, but there are not many saved in any category, except for Philadelphia.

The seven churches are summarized relatively simply but effectively below. Christ has something good to say about all but the last, and a rebuke of some sort for all.

Ephesus- Represented by the Independent Fundamental churches- Can find error well, but have little or lost their love for Christ.

Smyrna- Represented by the church in Communist and other like Countries- Persecuted unto death, need to hold fast the faith unto death

Pergamos-Represented by the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches- Bold, but not discerning and generally relish error

Thyatira-Represented by Episcopal type churches (United, Anglican Etc.)-Good human works, but not for Christ and friendly with Rome (Note: I don't consider Rome to be part of this church, Rome is Jezebel, not Thyatira)

Sardis- Represented by the Reformed churches-Have the truth, but pride in the having of it keeps it from their hearts and most are yet dead

Philidelphia- Represented by brethren wherever they may be-Well done, but need to hold fast the faith

Laodicea- Represented by the New Evangelical (EG Purpose Driven et al) type churches-Nothing good to say about it, the lukewarmness is putrid to Christ.

Each of them has Christ surrounded, but none of them have a lock on the 100% pure doctrine of Christ. It would be wise for us to grow in the commended things, and diminish in the things rebuked.

Some of His sheep can be found to be in each one.

Last edited by By the Blood; Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:35 AM.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35920
Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:06 AM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
By the Blood said:
Though not charismatic myself, I think the topic may be more intimating a situation like this:

You pray in the morning that the Lord would send someone who needs the gospel in your direction. During the day they come along, and you are able to share the good news with them. After hearing the gospel they readily decide to receive the Saviour. The next moment you are alone, and are able to think on what just transpired that day, it turns to a time of direct ministration of the Spirit of God.

As described here…..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God


And what is a "direct ministration of the Spirit of God"?

The situation you've described is more accurately called "discerning providence."

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:08 AM.

Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35921
Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:27 AM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Dear Friends,

Despite the fact that forums can tend to be counter-productive and end up being nothing more than a a shredding session where Christians behave more like the pigs and dogs than gentle lambs but I am obligated to offer the best answer to my own question (in my opening post); namely 'What is the LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ? (Please excuse the grammar and spelling, it is morning and I still need that cuppa somethin' right? )

The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
by Eric J. Sawyer.


Now I am aware that what I am about to write will be less than perfect as it is only a combination of the verses in a sort of a unified consideration, yet I hope that it will be a lightening to the load.

Firstly, it was Jesus who said that we should come unto Him and believe, and both of these factors lead us to a place where we shall never hunger and never thirst. Perhaps a moot point; the Eucharist can never satisfy the eternal longing in the heart for the Spirit of God, which Simeon discovered could not be purchased with money for He is a GIFT.

Secondly, where the Spirit of the Lord is there is LIBERTY. Jesus said, Come unto me ALL ye who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you REST, take my yoke upon me and learn of me, and ye shall find rest to your souls. As the Puritan's have emphasized time and again, all our deepest cries are answered in the Bridegroom. It is the five virgins who trimmed their lamps with that Spirit oil who were ready when the Master returned. We are instructed to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit and this comes about when we ask according to His will and believing we have received not based on any ecstatic feeling or sensation.

Thirdly, (well there were quite a few points above, but nevertheless) let me try to break this down a little more effectively. Each of us has a serious flaw, when we want to do what we know is right, evil is there to make us a slave again to our sinful nature, basically we are quite unable to keep the law of God, even though we have great intentions to do this and will try to turn over a new leaf, start a new chapter and make those resolutions to be a better person, the harder we do try, the more obvious to us it becomes, that though our consciences force us into some pretty amazing religious actions, and noble they may be we cannot fool the Holy Spirit, who convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment. Sin because we do not believe etc.

Fourthly, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is NOT a list of do's and don'ts though yes the law has many, many do's and don'ts and they are summarized in one do, an that is to love our neighbor as our self and we know that faith works by love, and that this world will know we are his disciples because we have love one to another, but remember that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts quite miraculously by the Holy Spirit. This is how God accomplishes what our consciences cannot all by themselves. He gives us a new heart and mind when we are born again. The idea of waiting in the upper room is not applicable to the believer now, for at the time of coming to faith in Christ we are immediately able to receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit sees that He seals us so, writing upon our hearts and minds God's law, and in simple terms Christ is born within us.

Fifthly, clearly Christ is outside us at the point of first light, and then after we have believed on him for salvation, He breathes upon us like He has always done and though the room may not be shaken, the Spirit who he said would be with us, and He is with us till the end of the world, will now be IN US for Christ IN US is the hope of glory.

Finally, many say well look at those Spirit-filled believers they are no different to us, and in one sense they are perfectly right, because we have a swept our clean, and new room, with nice new furniture, and because we are called NEW CREATIONS we are not altogether different in the sense that we are now super-beings, no we are still able to make all the same mistakes we have made before, but the difference now is that there is someone in us, the Captain of our salvation, and when we do sin, we have a new route to take and that is repentance and then forgiveness and washing us clean, and now that we live according to this new life in Jesus Christ, this new law of life, which is actually His Spirit within us, we are changed from glory to glory, and the changes are permanent, and marvelous and liberating and yes we are His peculiar people zealous of righteousness, and though we fall we have a new law within us that picks us up and causes us to walk as He did, to speak as He did, which will one day transform our lowly substance into that of a glorious son or daughter of God.

I think you will find most of what I have written in the Scriptures and probably some of it is all jumbled but it is what has changed my life completely, yes, Jesus Chris the law of the Spirit of life and we are complete in Him, in whom dwelled ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Amen.

Last edited by straw; Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:34 AM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35922
Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:43 AM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Quote
By the Blood said:
The problem is that the church of Sardis (represented by the Reformed church) is diametrically opposed to the church of Pergamos (represented by the Pentecostal church). Only the church of Ephesus (represented by the Independent Fundamental church) is opposed to Pergamos at the same level. The issue is that Sardis tends towards deadness, and Pergamos tends towards the hyper side of life, each of which are totally incompatible with each other, and Christ for that matter.

(excuse my edit)

Laodicea- Represented by the New Evangelical (EG Purpose Driven et al) type churches-Nothing good to say about it, the lukewarmness is putrid to Christ.

Each of them has Christ surrounded, but none of them have a lock on the 100% pure doctrine of Christ. It would be wise for us to grow in the commended things, and diminish in the things rebuked.

Some of His sheep can be found to be in each one.


Quite some deep thoughts here my friend. You are quite correct that there will be his sheep in some of the darkest ravines in the History of the Church. Huss, Luther, Calvin, you and me. With Christ in us, the hope of glory, I pray we shall not be ashamed to shine, or hide that light under a bushel (what is a bushel ?)

-straw

John Gill's description of the 'bushel' certainly opens up a new horizon: (So as not to loose the continuity of his thoughts, here is the whole commentary of Matthew 5:15 ('bushel' is also found in Mark 4:21 and Luke 11:33)

John Gill's Commentary of Matthew 5:15

'Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.'

Quote

Neither do men light a candle,.... Which may be read impersonally, "a candle is not lighted": and by it may be meant the Gospel, and gifts qualifying men to preach it; which, like a candle, was lighted in the evening of the Jewish dispensation, though not confined to the land of Judea; but has shone throughout the world, being as a candle to be removed, and has been removed from place to place: wherever it is set, it gives light, more or less, and dispels darkness; it is useful both to work by and walk with; it does not always burn alike clearly, it needs looking after; it has its thieves, as candles sometimes have; and will give the greatest light towards the close of the world, as they usually do, when ready to go out. Now when a candle is lighted by men, they do not

put it under a bushel, or anything which may hide and cover it, and so hinder its light and usefulness. The Greek word (see Cmt), rendered a "bushel", answers to the Hebrew (see Cmt), "seah", which is the very word used in Munster's Hebrew Gospel; and this was a dry measure that held about a gallon and a half; and accordingly is rendered here by the Syriac (see Cmt). The design of the expression is, that Christ has lighted the candle of the everlasting Gospel, and given gifts to men for the ministration of it, not to be concealed and neglected, or to be used as the servant did his lord's money, wrap it up in a napkin, and hide it in the earth. Ministers are not, through slothfulness, to neglect the gift that is in them; nor, through fear, to hide their talents, or keep back any part of the Gospel, or cover anything out of sight, which may be profitable to souls: "but" men, when they light a candle, put it

on a candlestick, and it giveth light to all that are in the house; as on the candlestick in the temple, a type of the church; where Christ has set the light of the Gospel, where it is held forth particularly by the ministers of the word, to illuminate the whole house and family of God; by the light of which poor sinners, the lost pieces of silver, are looked up; straggling souls are brought home; hypocrites and formalists are detected; and saints are enlightened, directed, and comforted. Much such a proverbial saying is used by the Jews (r):

"do not leave a vessel of balsam in a dunghill, but move it from its place, that its smell may spread, and men may receive profit from it.''

(r) Vid. Joh. Isaac. Praefat. ad Eliae Levit. Methurgeman.


<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" /> (break time) - dunghill ?

Last edited by straw; Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:03 AM.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35923
Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:14 AM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:14 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Quote
And what is a "direct ministration of the Spirit of God"?


The closest way I can describe it is by referring to the moment you learned that you had full assurance of salvation. It was something that prior to that time was unknown, it was revelation by the Spirit of God just to you, and it was not given to anyone else about you, making it a personal, private revelation.

Likewise with much answered prayer, oftentimes the one who prayed is the only one who learns of the answer (personal, private revelation), and has a deeper communion with God through Christ on that account.

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35924
Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:29 PM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
By the Blood said:
The closest way I can describe it is by referring to the moment you learned that you had full assurance of salvation. It was something that prior to that time was unknown, it was revelation by the Spirit of God just to you, and it was not given to anyone else about you, making it a personal, private revelation.


The revelation of the Gospel is quite public! The Holy Spirit never has, and does not need, to give me "personal, private revelation" as to my salvation because I believe what the Holy Spirit has spoken, and it is by the Holy Spirit that I believe. And this is true of all believers.

Quote
Likewise with much answered prayer, oftentimes the one who prayed is the only one who learns of the answer (personal, private revelation), and has a deeper communion with God through Christ on that account.


Answered prayer is not the same as revelation.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35925
Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:32 PM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:32 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Quote
The Holy Spirit never has, and does not need, to give me "personal, private revelation" as to my salvation...


I am sorry to hear that. Perhaps you should seek Him in this matter.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

Do you not know that this is what the Holy Spirit is meant to do? It is part of what He does as Comforter. It is one thing to recognize that Benny Hinn et. al. are frauds, it is quite another to quench the operations of the Spirit.

Thomas Brooks book 'Heaven on Earth, a treatise on Christian Assurance' may be of use to you in learning about how the Spirit works in personal, private revelation of assurance.

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35926
Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:29 PM
Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
First, The GROUND on which the apostle Paul builds his assurance, is not any special revelation--but such a foundation as is common to all believers, as clearly appears from Rom 8:32-34, "He who did not spare his own Son--but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us."

It is clear from these words, that this blessed apostle had not that glorious assurance that he speaks of in the two last verses of this chapter [Rom 8:38-39] by immediate revelation, for he concludes it from such arguments as are general or common to all the godly[/u]


Thomas Brooks, Heaven on Earth, Chapter I (1667).

Shall we continue to discuss "personal,private revelation" from the Spirit? Or shall we admit that the Spirit speaks through Holy Scripture?

In the same chapter, Brooks writes, "It is the very scope and end of the Scripture to help believers to a well-grounded assurance of their everlasting happiness and blessedness."

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:34 PM.

Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35927
Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:46 AM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

By the Blood said:
Do you not know that this is what the Holy Spirit is meant to do? It is part of what He does as Comforter. It is one thing to recognize that Benny Hinn et. al. are frauds, it is quite another to quench the operations of the Spirit.


The very second that you say "God speaks to me" even if it is only to say "He told me He loves me" you are on Benny Hinn's wicked road. Our mental institutions are full of those who "Hear God" speaking to them. To quench the Spirit is to believe He teaches or speaks independently or outside and separated from the Scripture.

As Calvin says in the Institutes:

Quote

In this way Christ explained to the two disciples, (Luke 24: 27,) not that they were to reject the Scriptures and trust to their own wisdom, but that they were to understand the Scriptures. In like manner, when Paul says to the Thessalonians, "Quench not the Spirit," he does not carry them aloft to empty speculation apart from the word; he immediately adds, "Despise not prophesying," (1 Thess. 5: 19, 20.) By this, doubtless, he intimates that the light of the Spirit is quenched the moment prophesying fall into contempt. How is this answered by those swelling enthusiasts, in whose idea the only true illumination consists, in carelessly laying aside, and bidding adieu to the Word of God, while, with no less confidence than folly, they fasten upon any dreaming notion which may have casually sprung up in their minds? Surely a very different sobriety becomes the children of God. As they feel that without the Spirit of God they are utterly devoid of the light of truth, so they are not ignorant that the word is the instrument by which the illumination of the Spirit is dispensed. They know of no other Spirit than the one who dwelt and spake in the apostles--the Spirit by whose oracles they are daily invited to the hearing of the word


Quote

By the Blood said:
....may be of use to you in learning about how the Spirit works in personal, private revelation of assurance.


It is not Kyle that needs learn how the Spirit works, but you.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35928
Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:17 AM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:17 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


A little further in the same book (P. 297 in mine):

Quote

Eighthly, and lastly, A well-grounded assurance sometimes springs from the testimony and witness of the Spirit of God. The Spirit sometimes witnesses to a believer's spirit that he is born of God, that he is beloved of God, that he hath union and communion with God, and that he shall reign for ever with God: Rom. 8.16, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." The Spirit itself witnesseth not only the gifts and graces of the Spirit, but the Spirit itself witnesseth together with our own spirit, that we are the children of God. Sometimes the saints have two witnesses joining their testimonies together to confirm and establish them in these blessed and glorious truths, that they are the sons of God and heirs of glory; and this is their honour as well as their comfort, that the blessed Spirit should bear witness at the bar of their consciences that they are the sons of God: 1 Cor. 2:12, "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God"; that is, that we may know our election, vocation, justification, sanctification, and glorification. A man may receive many things that are freely given of God, and yet not know them till the Spirit comes and makes them known to the soul.


You write:
Quote

Shall we continue to discuss "personal,private revelation" from the Spirit? Or shall we admit that the Spirit speaks through Holy Scripture?


The Spirit makes doctrines of scripture known to the elect, that He does not make known to the unsaved. He also makes some doctrines known to some of the saved and not to other of the saved yet, hence all the great arguments about what scripture actually says. This is called personal, private revelation, much deeper than mere words. If you claim that assurance is ALL and ONLY just because YOU believe scripture, it becomes a little too Arminian at that point. Who is it that gives understanding? The Spirit of God. How does He do it? Personally, and privately. What is understanding? A revealing of the will of God. Hence we (I do anyway) have personal, private revelation by the Spirit of God in regards to my assurance.

Remember:
"Who maketh thee to differ?"

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35929
Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
A little further in the same book . . .


It is enough for me simply to reiterate what Brooks says in his first chapter: that the ground of assurance is not any "special" or "immediate revelation." So if he writes of the inward testimony of the Spirit, it is not a "personal, private revelation" he describes. But let the reader judge: his whole book is available here; By the Blood quotes from Chapter 7.

Quote
The Spirit makes doctrines of scripture known to the elect, that He does not make known to the unsaved. He also makes some doctrines known to some of the saved and not to other of the saved yet, hence all the great arguments about what scripture actually says. This is called personal, private revelation, much deeper than mere words.


It is rather called illumination, or the transforming or renewing of the mind. The Spirit transforms our minds that we might understand and receive with joy the doctrines of Scripture. By your standard, we might have a Baptist say, "The Spirit has given me a personal, private revelation that paedobaptism is a false doctrine." And a Presbyterian might say, "The Spirit has given me a personal, private revelation that paedobaptism is a true doctrine." And who shall judge between them? Or does the Spirit produce confusion? Rather, let both say, "The Spirit is transforming my mind; and by my study of His Word, I have concluded that the true doctrine of baptism is thus and such." Then we can turn to the pages of Holy Writ, and judge between them.

Quote
If you claim that assurance is ALL and ONLY just because YOU believe scripture, it becomes a little too Arminian at that point.


Arminian? I should hardly have to defend myself against the charge; those familiar with my work on this board are well aware that I am no Arminian. But is it really too Arminian to affirm the words of the blessed apostle when he writes "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Rom. 10:9)?

Quote
Who is it that gives understanding? The Spirit of God. How does He do it? Personally, and privately. What is understanding? A revealing of the will of God. Hence we (I do anyway) have personal, private revelation by the Spirit of God in regards to my assurance.


Of course it is the Spirit who gives understanding. He it is who transforms the heart of stone to a heart of flesh, and He it is who plants the seed of faith in the elect. But the work of the Spirit inwardly within the individual is not a "personal, private revelation" from Him! For everything the Spirit teaches us He has already revealed, quite publicly, in His Scripture.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35930
Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:00 PM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Quote
By the Blood said:
The Spirit makes doctrines of scripture known to the elect, that He does not make known to the unsaved. He also makes some doctrines known to some of the saved and not to other of the saved yet, hence all the great arguments about what scripture actually says. This is called personal, private revelation, much deeper than mere words. If you claim that assurance is ALL and ONLY just because YOU believe scripture, it becomes a little too Arminian at that point. Who is it that gives understanding? The Spirit of God. How does He do it? Personally, and privately. What is understanding? A revealing of the will of God. Hence we (I do anyway) have personal, private revelation by the Spirit of God in regards to my assurance.

First, it is the universal testimony of the true Church that there are only two types of revelation from God which are given to men since the close of Canon: 1) Natural revelation, that which can be perceived in the natural creation and 2) Special revelation, the inspired inscripturated Word of God, aka: the Bible. During the interim, when the Scriptures were in the process of being written, God spoke directly to the Prophets and a few others by various means (Heb 1:1). The "final word" came through Jesus Christ Who appointed certain disciples to record His teachings by His Spirit. Thus, it is by, through and in the Scriptures God speaks to men and not in any way, shape or form apart from or in addition to the Word. There is simply no way an individual can discern that some voice, feeling or intuition is from God, particularly where such things are beyond Scriptural teaching.

Second, it is certainly true that the Spirit of God "reveals" the truths of Scripture to the elect (true believers) and not to unbelievers. However, this is not to be misconstrued as merely intellectual comprehension. But rather, it is more the embracing of those truths with the whole being, i.e., one not only assents to truth but it has a definite life-changing power to the one who embraces it because it replaces the principles which formerly controlled and directed that individual. (cf. Rom 7; 12:2) Many heretics and even Atheists have been able to intellectually grasp biblical doctrine but they immediately reject it as folly. They understand all too well what Scripture teaches but find it odious and objectionable, even calling it foolishness. (1Cor 2:14; Rom 8:7, 8) For example, it is not a difficult task for an unbeliever to read Scripture and understand that Christ was crucified, buried and raised from the dead. But such things are deemed mythical, fiction and hardly something to be embraced as truth never mind adopted as a principle of life itself.

Third, on the matter of assurance and the "witnessing of the Spirit to our spirits". One may indeed have an "inner confidence" which is said to be God "speaking". But as I pointed out in #1, there is no infallible method to discern whether that "speaking" is truly of God. There have been and always will be a multitude of people who claim to have assurance of salvation, of varying definitions, due to an "inner confidence" which they claim to have been given to them by God Himself, yet who remain dead in sins and under the judgment of God. One of the more easily seen examples is that of the Pharisees who were adamant that they were blessed of God. Many "believed" upon Christ and had some measure of assurance that they were saved but were anything but saved. (cf. Jh 2:23-25; 8:30ff) Thus the doctrine of assurance which the Church as held is not grounded solely upon the teaching that the Spirit witnesses to one's spirit but rather it is based upon several factors, e.g., embracing the truth of the Gospel, a life that exhibits repentance and good works and the testimony of the Church as it witnesses these things as being active in one's life.

Last, as I have emphasized before, God does not communicate by sending postcards to us but rather He has deemed it most effective to speak in and through the written Word attended by the indwelling Spirit Who opens our minds and hearts to not only comprehend its truth but to embrace it as a principle of life.


Colossians 1:9-10 (ASV) "For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, to walk worthily of the Lord unto all pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;"


For further reading on the matter of assurance, see here:

Assurance of Salvation, by William R. Crews

True and False Assurance, by J.C. Ryle

Assurance: How We Know That We Know Christ, by John H. Gerstner

How Are Believers Guided into "All Truth"?, by John Owen

Quote
Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation


I. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God, and estate of salvation[1] (which hope of theirs shall perish):[2] yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace,[3] and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.[4]

II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope;[5] but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,[6] the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,[7] the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God,[8] which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.[9]

III. This infallible assurance does not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it:[10] yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.[11] And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure,[12] that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,[13] the proper fruits of this assurance; so far is it from inclining men to looseness.[14]

IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which wounds the conscience and grieves the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God's withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no light:[15] yet are they never so utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;[16] and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.[17]

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Pilgrim] #35931
Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 PM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


From your John Owen reference, this is what I have been trying to explain to the other guys. Perhaps they will see it in reformed terminology.

Quote

John Owen

THE NATURE OF THIS WORK OF THE SPIRIT

The Holy Spirit does this work by teaching ‘The unction teaches you.’ This does not refer to his direct inspiration, that is, his bringing new sacred truths from God directly to the minds of men. This is how he taught the apostles and prophets (1 Pet. 1:11-12; 2 Pet. 1:21). Nor does God grant new revelations to preserve his people from error. God has made sufficient provision in his Word for that (Isa. 8:20; 2 Pet. 1:19).

The teaching referred to is his enabling us to discern, know and understand the mind and will of God as revealed in the Scriptures.

It is not enough simply to know the truth. We must also be assured in our minds that we do really know it (Eph. 4:14; Col. 2:2). This assurance is given by the Holy Spirit ‘who is truth and is not a lie’. There is no possibility of anyone being deceived in what he is taught by this ‘unction’. The Holy Spirit gives to believers a secret witness to what he teaches, along with his teachings (1 John 5:6). There is a special power accompanying the teaching of God by his Spirit (Job 36:22; John 6:45). So whoever is taught in this way certainly believes the things he is taught, having the evidence of the truth of them in himself (1 John 5:10).

Spiritual sense and judgment are able to discern the divine evidences in the things the Holy Spirit teaches (Heb. 5:14). This is what gives the mind the highest assurance of the truth that it is able to have in this world.

The testimonies we have considered are sufficient to establish this first general assertion: It is the Holy Spirit who teaches us to understand aright the mind and will of God in the Scripture. Without his aid we could never do this usefully and profitably to our souls.

The great promise of the New Testament is that all believers shall be ‘taught by God’ (John 6:45; see also 1 Thess. 4:9). No man is self-taught in sacred things.

Who will the Holy Spirit teach? He will teach those who are meek and humble, those who give themselves to continual prayer, meditation and study in God’s Word day and night, and those who strive to conform their lives to the truths he instructs them in. Because these are hard conditions to flesh and blood, there are few who apply to study in the school of God, while many will apply to other teachers, especially to the church of Rome, where no cost in self-denial need be involved.


I understand the reformed aversion to the word revealed, revelation etc., but scripture does use it, so we cannot shy away from it either.

1 Cor 2:9-11 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

FYI: The Ryle reference is actually part of Brooks book.

Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35932
Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:25 PM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit


Is that a "personal, private revelation"?

You also quote John Owen, but pay attention:

Quote
The Holy Spirit does this work by teaching ‘The unction teaches you.’ This does not refer to his direct inspiration, that is, his bringing new sacred truths from God directly to the minds of men. This is how he taught the apostles and prophets (1 Pet. 1:11-12; 2 Pet. 1:21). Nor does God grant new revelations to preserve his people from error. God has made sufficient provision in his Word for that (Isa. 8:20; 2 Pet. 1:19).


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35933
Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:43 PM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
We KNOW because the Spirit has QUICKENED us so that we can LIVE out His will. We PROVE the truth of God's word in our lives because God's Spirit lives in us, enabling us to live lives pleasing to Him.

This NOT "special, personal, direct revelation!" This knowledge is not cognitive grasp of doctrine, but a heart changed - conformed by the renewing of the mind. The mind is renewed by the Spirit applying the written word to the hearts of His people.

There is absolutely no other "revelation" going on among God's people on earth.

If anyone here is hoping to use this forum to promote charismaticism, you've definitely come to the wrong place. I have met some folks who claim to be "Reformed Charismatics," but the term is an oxymoron. One cannot embrace sola Scriptura and still lay claim to any form of revelation apart from the Scriptures.

This thread has not been particularly helpful for the purpose of this forum anyway; but right from the start fostered a theological debate.

That's what the Theology forum is for (sorry, Pilgrim <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />). But it has been helpful in demonstrating how theologically and systemically stubborn the false teachings and superstitions of charismaticism can be.

The original post seemed to be about possible meanings of "the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." I offer that it refers to a spiritual principle rather than a duty required or offense forbidden with rewards and penalties prescribed for obedience or disobedience. Like physical laws of nature, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus cannot be broken.

-Robin

Attached Files-Click on Image to view full size.
64096-BackToTopic.gif (180 downloads)
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Robin] #35934
Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:21 PM
Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:21 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


I gather that D.L. Moody is not widely read here.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 28 guests, and 129 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Micki Bowman, Nigel J, wischnotes, Dutch Michael, Ray
927 Registered Users
Shout Box
June
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
769,925 Gospel truth
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.082s Queries: 17 (0.008s) Memory: 3.2868 MB (Peak: 3.7996 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-06-24 16:22:01 UTC