Search

Member Spotlight
Johan
Johan
South Africa
Posts: 323
Joined: October 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,684
Posts51,430
Members928
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,513
Tom 3,525
chestnutmare 2,920
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,769
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 17
Tom 15
Meta4 2
Johan 2
John_C 1
Recent Posts
Big Thank You!
by Tom. Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:19 PM
Same Sex Atraction
by Pilgrim. Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:33 AM
What will it like to live in Heaven
by Pilgrim. Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:32 PM
Bill 89 taking children from Christian homes
by Tom. Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:10 PM
Pay Taxes
by Tom. Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:54 PM
Isaac Watts and the Trinity
by Pilgrim. Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:58 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35894
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 AM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
I am taking a little sabattical from posting here after receiving close to ten prescriptive sermons/books and as I am new here I would like to leave a little puddle of inspiration for ye all to splash in.

After reading the introduction to both Frued and Jung, I discovered that they both got pretty close to discovering the secret to LIFE. It is a pity that both of them were not there the day that Jesus spoke with the women at the well of Summaria. I am sure Frued would have been double back twisting and Jung would have run all the way to Summaria with her just to see what the people would say, either way they would have missed what so many Charasmatics miss.

It is written out for us at the beginning of Romans 8 and in fact continues right on throughout Romans 8. It is the expression of the answer to the dilemma of ALL mankind.

I have often read that and was told Paul had reached a point of confusion...what?..he was teaching and expressing the anguish of the human condition. We just do not have the power to live victoriously, to walk in deliverance from the things that mess us up.

His answer is summed up in the title to this thread: "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"...

Now you may be a little perplexed, so why not turn to the passage and see if you can interpret it.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ? What exactly do you think that means...I know that if Freud and Jung were alive they would have both had their minds whirring as they awaited the description of what I believe is the solution to life aboard this crazy planet, not some crazy solution to repression, or to the mystery of synchronicity, but something far more PROFOUND...ready ? ...Well let's have your interpretation...

Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:02 AM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35895
Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:26 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

Straw said:
It is written out for us at the beginning of Romans 8 and in fact continues right on throughout Romans 8. It is the expression of the answer to the dilemma of ALL mankind.


It is the Charismatics that have "screwed up". <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bingo.gif" alt="" />

Quote

There is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. [Romans 8:1, NASB]


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35896
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:19 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Hi Denny,

Can you see the title of this thread ? Just look up above what is written here...okay...it reads, 'The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus' --- Do you know what that means ? (This is a little like 'Ace Combat'...if you look hard enough you will eventually see the square and when it goes red you can fire.) Simply put, all this thread is about, is explaining the meaning of the title. Okay...so go on make my day. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bigglasses.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:24 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35897
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:41 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Quote
2. For through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul speaks about “the law of the Spirit of life.” That the Holy Spirit is life in his very essence and also imparts life, both physical and spiritual, is clear from ever so many passages of Scripture. The basis for this doctrine is probably found already in Gen. 1:1; Ps. 51:11; 104:30. For closer references see John 6:63; II Cor. 3:6; Gal. 6:8; and do not forget Rom. 8:11. The law of the Spirit of life is the forceful and effective operation of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and lives of God’s children. It is the very opposite of “the law of sin and death,” for which see on 7:23, 25. Just as the law of sin produces death, so also the law, or ruling factor, of the Spirit of life brings about life. Cf. Rom. 6:23. It does this “through Christ Jesus,” that is, on the basis of the merits of his atonement, and by means of the vitalizing power of union with him.

The question arises, “If in Rom. 7:14-8:2 Paul throughout speaks about himself as a believer, how can he say not only, “I am carnal, sold as a slave to sin ... a prisoner” (7:14, 23); but also, “Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death”? How can a slave and prisoner also be a free person? Does not this very contradiction show that we have erroneously interpreted Rom. 7:14, 23?

The answer is, “Not at all.” On the contrary, when we read these passages — both 7:14, 23 and 8:1, 2, we say, “How wonderful is the Word of God! What a true picture it draws of the person I really am! On the one hand I am a slave, a prisoner, for sin has such control over me that I cannot lead a sinless life (Jer. 17:9; Matt. 6.12; I John 1:8, 10). Yet, on the other hand, I am a free person, for though Satan tries with all his might and trickery to keep me from doing what is right — such as trusting God for my salvation, invoking him in prayer, rejoicing in him, working for his causes, etc., he cannot throughout stop me from doing so. He cannot completely prevent me from experiencing the peace of God that transcends all understanding. The sense of victory, which I possess in principle even now and will possess in perfection in the future, sustains me in all my struggles. I rejoice in the freedom which Christ has earned for me!” (cf. Gal. 5:1).

When an interpreter of 7:21-8:2 limits Christian experience to what is found in 7:22, 25a, 8:1, 2, leaving out 7:21, 23, 24, 25b, does he not resemble the musician who tries to play an elaborate piece on an organ with a very restricted number of octaves, or on a harp with many broken strings? (William Hendrkisen, New Testament Commentary, Baker: Grand Rapids, 1980, Vol I, pp. 245, 246.)


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35898
Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:25 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
Simply put, all this thread is about, is explaining the meaning of the title. Okay...so go on make my day.


I can't hardly believe that you took offense to what I said? This is even when the "spirit" of what I said was initially in agreement with your post!

Here is the meaning to the title to me:

There is no "Spirit" that is not in union with God's words and commands.

Quote

I slap your "spirit" on the snout. [Martin Luther to the Charismatic "enthusiasts" of his day]


After all, this is in a Ex-Charismatic thread and I don't play "Ace Combat".

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Adopted] #35899
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:23 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Thank-you Pilgrim,
I take you are familiar with the J.F.B Commentary ?

Quote

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free--rather, "freed me"--referring to the time of his conversion, when first he believed.

from the law of sin and death--It is the Holy Ghost who is here called "the Spirit of life," as opening up in the souls of believers a fountain of spiritual life (see on Cmt. on John 7:38); just as He is called "the Spirit of truth," as "guiding them into all truth" (John 16:13), and "the Spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord" (Isa 11:2), as the inspirer of these qualities. And He is called "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," because it is as members of Christ that He takes up His abode in believers, who in consequence of this have one life with their Head. And as the word "law" here has the same meaning as in Romans 7:23, namely, "an inward principle of action, operating with the fixedness and regularity of a law," it thus appears that "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" here means, "that new principle of action which the Spirit of Christ has opened up within us--the law of our new being." This "sets us free," as soon as it takes possession of our inner man, "from the law of sin and death" that is, from the enslaving power of that corrupt principle which carries death in its bosom. The "strong man armed" is overpowered by the "stronger than he"; the weaker principle is dethroned and expelled by the more powerful; the principle of spiritual life prevails against and brings into captivity the principle of spiritual death--"leading captivity captive." If this be the apostle's meaning, the whole verse is to this effect: That the triumph of believers over their inward corruption, through the power of Christ's Spirit in them, proves them to be in Christ Jesus, and as such absolved from condemnation. But this is now explained more fully.


I kept thinking of Norman Grubb's book about Rees Howells. Oh to be so willing to be led, to walk, to live in the Spirit.


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35900
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:54 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Denny,
Quote

You said:
'It is the Charismatics that have "screwed up".'


I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground. If your first comment-ary was vague, your second one is completely confusing.

Quote

You said:
Here is the meaning to the title to me:
There is no "Spirit" that is not in union with God's words and commands.


I was led to Christ by a Pentecostal, spent 4 or 5 years maturing and growing under the preaching of a very profound Pentecostal ( Pastor Noel Cromhout - 'Ground Level Faith' who is assitant Pastor in Schenektady - Calvary Tabernacle A.O.G.) and though I left and spent many years floating from Church to Church getting all sorts of wierd ideas, the foundations that were laid by this truly wise man of God, have stood me in good stead against the prevailing climate of false teachers. If you like I would be more than willing to send you a set of his sermons on the book of 'Romans'.

Just remember not everyone who was a Pentecostal or Charismatic regarded everything that happened as being wrong. There is much in the Pentecostal and Charismatic experience that was most tender and blessed and certainly there were 'wolves' among the sheep as there are in every single move of the Spirit, hence the schizms etc.

Just remember not everyone who went through the Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal Revival etc... 'screwed up' <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />


Last edited by straw; Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:01 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35901
Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Quote
straw said:
I take you are familiar with the J.F.B Commentary ?

I have the full 3 Volume Eerdmans edition (1976 reprint). It is not a commentary I use often due to theological differences between the authors and my own which are grounded in the doctrines held by the Reformers and Puritans.

Quote
straw said:
I kept thinking of Norman Grubb's book about Rees Howells. Oh to be so willing to be led, to walk, to live in the Spirit.

Well, your mention of Rees Howells is actually ironically apropos for the main theme of this forum: "ExCharisma". Mr. Howells is a man of some questionable verity but who is lauded as a true "divine" by those in the Pietist and Charismatic movements among others. Dr. J.I. Packer, coincidently, uses Rees Howell as a negative example, i.e., one who is not to be esteemed as an example to follow in part III of his multi-part article, "True Guidance". Here is one of two quotes where Packer mentions Rees Howell:


1. If anyone today receives a direct disclosure from God on any matter at all, it will have no canonical significance: that is, it will not be meant to become part of the church's rule of faith and life, nor will the church as such be under any obligation to acknowledge the disclosure as revelation: nor will anyone merit blame for suspecting that the disclosure was not from God at all. If the alleged disclosure is a prediction (as when, for instance, Rees Howells, founder of the Bible College of South Wales, Predicted in the 30s. in his book God Challenges the Dictators, that there would be no second World War), Moses assures us that there is not even a prima facie case for treating it as genuinely from God until it is seen to have come true (Deut. 18:21 f.). If the alleged disclosure is a directive (as when, for instance, a leader claims that God told him to found a hospital or university or mission or crusade of some kind), any who associate themselves with his project should do so because wisdom tells them, that it is needed, realistic, and God honoring, not because the leader tells them that God directly commanded him (and by implication them) to attempt it.


You can access all of part III here: True Guidance (Part III)

Those who have lived after the close of the Canon and claim to have direct revelation from God, produce miracles, prophecy, etc., are to be avoided. God speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures and does not engage in tête-à-tête conversations with individuals. See here: Does God Speak to us Today Apart from the Bible?, by Dr. R. Fowler White.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: Pilgrim] #35902
Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
'Those who have lived after the close of the Canon and claim to have direct revelation from God, produce miracles, prophecy, etc., are to be avoided. God speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures and does not engage in tête-à-tête conversations with individuals.'

Pilgrim,

God has spoken to us by His Son, and certainly the Scriptures were given to make us wise unto salvation which is by Jesus Christ, and also that these Scriptures are only a fraction of all that Jesus spoke, but what we are given is to enable us to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Further to that we have been given the Holy Spirit our teacher, comforter, who guides us into all truth. Since 1976 when I was in a beginners Bible Study, I heard His Spirit speaking to my heart and teaching me. I fear you are teaching from a very dry well my friend.

The day that God stops speaking to us by the Holy Spirit will be a most frightening day, but to consciously resist the teacher, comforter and the One who is given to us to lead us into all truth, is to lean solely upon one's own intellect.

I remember how it was when I read the Bible like Appollos. Then the Lord baptised me in the Holy Spirit and for the first time I was able to really hear God.

It seems that my time here has drawn suddenly to a close. I must say when I was getting all the stuff to read, I realized that I was in an intellectual cave, it is time to go down to BIOLA University and pull out those old copies by a long forgotten Headmaster and read about the more excellent way.

Sela Vie,


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35903
Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:36 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
Needs to get a Life
Wes  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Straw,

When you opened this thread you promised a puddle of inspiration. Well, I see the puddle..... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

God has accomplished salvation once-for-all, in Christ, He has also spoken His word, once-for-all, in Christ and in those whom Christ authorized and empowered by His Spirit (Heb. 1:1-2; 2:3, 4; Matt. 16:15-19; John 14:26; Eph. 2:19, 20). With the completion of salvation in Christ comes the cessation of revelation. Consequently, the church now lives by a "Scripture only" principle of authority. To tamper with this principle invites a host of theological and pastoral problems. The proof of this observation can be seen in the effect of these "prophecies" upon many who are being led far from the sufficiency of the gospel itself. Its finality and complete sufficiency is, in reality, subtly assaulted by these claims to modern prophecies.

The Bible gives us no reason to expect that God will speak to His children today apart from the Scriptures. Those who teach otherwise need to explain to God’s children how these words "freshly spoken from heaven" can be so necessary and strategic to God’s highest purposes for their lives when their Father does nothing to ensure that they will ever actually hear those words. Indeed, they must explain why this is not quenching the Spirit. Moreover, the promise of such guidance inevitably diverts attention from the Scriptures, particularly in the practical and pressing concerns of life. Let us never underestimate just how serious this diversion really is. In the Bible the church hears God’s true voice; in the Scriptures, we know that He is speaking His very words to us. Advocates of words "freshly spoken from heaven" should beware: By diverting attention from the Scriptures, they quench the Spirit who is speaking therein.

Does God Speak Today Apart From The Bible?


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35904
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
straw said:

Further to that we have been given the Holy Spirit our teacher, comforter, who guides us into all truth. Since 1976 when I was in a beginners Bible Study, I heard His Spirit speaking to my heart and teaching me. I fear you are teaching from a very dry well my friend.


The "dry well" of Scripture? First you acted as though the Bible is your final authority on all these things, but now you've introduced another principle: personal revelation from the Spirit. How is this to be judged by Scripture? Is it only those things which contradict Scripture which are to be judged unspiritual? If the Spirit tells you to eat at McDonald's today, how do you know it's the Spirit? Do you get a "feeling" that you can describe, so that we all may also know when the Spirit speaks directly to us?

Quote
The day that God stops speaking to us by the Holy Spirit will be a most frightening day, but to consciously resist the teacher, comforter and the One who is given to us to lead us into all truth, is to lean solely upon one's own intellect.


Praise God, we have the God-breathed Scriptures by which the Holy Spirit constantly speaks to us!


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35905
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
straw said:

I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground. If your first comment-ary was vague, your second one is completely confusing.


There is no middle ground between the eternal truth and total sufficiency of Holy Scripture, and every wind of doctrine that blows out of Charismaticism.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: CovenantInBlood] #35906
Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:35 PM
Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:35 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Though not charismatic myself, I think the topic may be more intimating a situation like this:

You pray in the morning that the Lord would send someone who needs the gospel in your direction. During the day they come along, and you are able to share the good news with them. After hearing the gospel they readily decide to receive the Saviour. The next moment you are alone, and are able to think on what just transpired that day, it turns to a time of direct ministration of the Spirit of God.

As described here…..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God


Last edited by By the Blood; Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:47 PM.
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus #35907
Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
straw Offline OP
Member
straw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
AFRICA
Quote
By the Blood said:
Though not charismatic myself, I think the topic may be more intimating a situation like this:

You pray in the morning that the Lord would send someone who needs the gospel in your direction. During the day they come along, and you are able to share the good news with them. After hearing the gospel they readily decide to receive the Saviour. The next moment you are alone, and are able to think on what just transpired that day, it turns to a time of direct ministration of the Spirit of God.

As described here…..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God



Welcome to the boards 'By the Blood' -- Yes! -- Romans 8:16 'The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God' (Splashing in the puddle <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" /> )

This passage is probably one of those that most of us just skip over, and never get wet. Splish, splash taking a bath.

Quote

'That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.'


1 John 1: 1-3

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cloud9.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [Re: straw] #35908
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:58 AM
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote

straw said:
I think you need to really watch how you talk to Charismatics, Pentecostals and those who might have come to this forum to discover some middle ground.


They don't come to this forum to discover middle ground, they come here for healing after they've been spiritually assaulted by the Pentacostals.

It's either about your "full" gospel and the righteousness that you believe is within you, or it is about the righteousness that is found only (Sola) within Him.

There IS NO middle ground.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Last edited by Adopted; Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:43 AM.

Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 22 guests, and 95 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
reformedbygrace, ReformedDisciple, Micki Bowman, Nigel J, wischnotes
928 Registered Users
Shout Box
September
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
810,379 Gospel truth
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.059s Queries: 16 (0.005s) Memory: 2.9944 MB (Peak: 3.2997 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-23 17:41:29 UTC