Search

Member Spotlight
Meta4
Meta4
Canada
Posts: 48
Joined: May 2016
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,683
Posts51,426
Members928
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,511
Tom 3,522
chestnutmare 2,920
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,769
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 17
Tom 16
Meta4 2
Johan 2
John_C 1
Recent Posts
Same Sex Atraction
by Tom. Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:37 PM
What will it like to live in Heaven
by Pilgrim. Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:32 PM
Bill 89 taking children from Christian homes
by Tom. Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:10 PM
Pay Taxes
by Tom. Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:54 PM
Isaac Watts and the Trinity
by Pilgrim. Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:58 AM
Jury Duty
by ReformedDisciple. Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:07 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36079
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:28 PM
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
After all God is hardly silent, is He ?


Indeed, He speaks in Scripture.

Quote
After all most of us were saved as a result of someone preaching, 'faith cometh by hearing' but one needed to have a preacher, preaching.


Not only preaching, but preaching THE WORD OF GOD, which is contained in SCRIPTURE.

Quote
Now if we were saved and one had no Bible (you know someone living in the Amazon, or on a remote Island etcetera.), or preacher, then I suppose one might conclude that someone spoke to us, but who would this be ? Obviously God.


So are you saying that God is directly preaching the Gospel to people in remote corners of the earth? The apostle writes, "How will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" (Rom. 10:14).

Quote
There is so much that God longs to talk intimately to you about that is not contained in the Bible, for example in 1 John 1:1-3 (It is clear there if fellowship with God.)


Have you touched the body of Christ with your hands, straw? (1 Jh. 1:1!)


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36080
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:45 PM
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
straw said:

As I have already explained I am speaking about the mundane things of life, like deciding about whether or not you are going to have the cat put to sleep, or if you are going to resign from you new job, or if you should have an operation on that cancerous growth or go for prayer.


Or whether to wear boxers or briefs, or whether to eat the cheeseburger or the chicken sandwich, or whether to answer the telephone with the greeting "Hello, you've reached the Smith residence" or "Hello, Smith speaking," or if you should write in block letters or in handwriting, or whether you should fill the gas tank at Chevron or at Shell, etc., etc. ad nauseam. Right? And if not these things, then you are simply determining what is important to the Spirit by your own fleshly ideas, and nothing more; otherwise you should wait on the Lord for an answer to whether you should keep the covers on top of you in the morning and stay in bed or throw them off and prepare for the day!

Quote
One does not make a Bible out of this, but they are real events where God is speaking directly to our hearts and minds. Right?


Wrong.

Quote
I am also not one who believes in having ANOTHER bible, but we have to realize that God speaks both Generally and Specially, that is the truth of Theology, otherwise how on earth would God speak to an unbeliever who would not touch a Bible with a barge pole.


"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its widom did not know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe" (I Cor. 1:21).

Quote
Or someone who lives in a remote place where there is not preaching, preacher, or Bible.


If God has chosen not to grant such persons the merciful benefit of hearing the Gospel, then it is His judgement.

Quote
Going beyond is not what I am writing about, that is something that is never intended. How on earth would that be possible.


Where is it written in Scripture about whether or not to put down your pet? To say that God has directly revealed to you what to do in such a situation is by definition to go beyond what is written, because the Scripture does not address the matter!

Quote
God sent His Son into this world, to speak, and He did and He spoke and continues to speak and will do so for eternity. To those who listen His voice is precious and tender and faithful.


And it is in His Scripure.

Quote
It is not the case of being second rate or any other nonesense, it is that God is able both to speak to us through His Spirit and His Word. We need both. There are times when we can't get to the house phone, and we need that cell phone, do you undestand what I mean ? Emergency calls to our heavenly Father.


If we walk in the Spirit, the Spirit will apply the wisdom of His Scripture which we read to our hearts. We do not need to have special and immediate revelation from Him.

For more on this subject, you can read this: "Discovering God's Will," by Sinclair Ferguson. Now I must admit I don't actually expect you to read this, since you seem quite busy enough with reading, but perhaps at least some others will benefit from it.

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:15 PM.

Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36081
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:52 PM
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
I have always wondered why Calvin started with 'THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD THE CREATOR" - whereas the Westminster Confession begins with 'Of Scripture'.


You could read what the Confession says as to why it begins with Scripture:

Quote
Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterwards, for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing: which maketh the Holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.


Not surprisingly, Calvin says much the same in Book I, ch. 6:

Quote
Therefore, though the effulgence which is presented to every eye, both in the heavens and on the earth, leaves the ingratitude of man without excuse, since God, in order to bring the whole human race under the same condemnation, holds forth to all, without exception, a mirror of his Deity in his works, another and better help must be given to guide us properly to God as a Creator. Not in vain, therefore, has he added the light of his Word in order that he might make himself known unto salvation, and bestowed the privilege on those whom he was pleased to bring into nearer and more familiar relation to himself.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36082
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:54 PM
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,511
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,511
NH, USA
Quote
straw said:
I have always thought the idea of using Sola Scriptura to reject a present tense God speaking to your hearts and minds a bit strange on a forum where I have received in excess of 15 references to read works other than the Bible.

Straw,

Obviously, you have either no understanding or a misunderstanding concerning the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura". The doctrine re-established by the Reformers and that which has been held by all consistent Calvinists since their day has been that Sola Scriptura is the "sole and final authority in all matters of faith and practice". However, Sola Scriptura does not preclude the insightful teaching of that written Word of God nor such documents as the Ecumenical Creeds nor the great Confessions and Catechisms which flowed out of the Protestant Reformation. In fact, Sola Scriptura establishes secondary authorities, not prohibits them.

For more on the historic Church's position on Scriptura, specifically "Sola Scriptura" see here:

What Do We Mean By Sola Scriptura?, by Dr. W. Robert Godfrey

Sola Scriptura and the Church, by William Webster

It is Written: Sola Scriptura, by Richard Bennett

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36083
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:57 PM
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Quote
If one is a purist Sola Scriptura then one aught not to post poetry or prose, or articles but just post Scripture. Right?


Evidently you don't understand the doctrine of sola Scriptura, which means, not that there is nothing of truth anywhere else, but that God speaks today only through what He has said in Scripture, and, therefore, Scripture is the final authority and judge. Sometimes we even need men who have the gift of teaching to better explain to us what God has said.

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:59 PM.

Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: CovenantInBlood] #36084
Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:20 AM
Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
bassbum Offline
Plebeian
bassbum  Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I have read the various posts on this with great interest. I too was in a Charismatic church for 20 years and came to the Reformed Confession about 5 years ago and left my AOG church a little over a year ago. My wife is still there. The whole time I was in the AOG church I never once heard the direct voice of God even though at times I sought it being prodded by the others who had.
With all of the exchanges going back and forth and the Scriptures flying hot and heavy, I want to add a practical side where hearing from God apart from Scripture ultimately ends up. What you are about to read is a true story. I have changed the actual names. I relate this story not for entertainment or even to prove a theological point. I write this because I believe that seeking to hear the voice of God leads us into the wilderness. That wilderness is full of doubt, confusion, lack of true biblical faith, and the Word of God as being secondary.
About 2 Years ago at my old AOG church, the only son of a couple who where one of the pillars of the church, was diagnosed with Leukemia. His Dad was a deacon and his mother was head of the Intercessors. A year ago with much prayer and words from God confirming that he would be healed, his Leukemia went into remission. We all rejoiced and those that heard from God were now confident that they heard a true Word. A few months back, the cancer returned. There was much prayer going up and many of the Intercessors assured his Mom that God had directly spoke to them that her son would be healed. Even as his condition worsened, because of these words from God, they all never doubted that he would be healed.

Today I attended this young (31) man's funeral.

As tragic as this story is, not any less tragic is the doubts and confusion of the Intercessors. I include an e-mail from one of them:

"This is very sad and confusing. Josh had an incredible Army fighting for him. Can't find a better bunch of prayer warriors anywhere. What happened? Why didn't God heal him? Why didn't God answer prayers? Sue(the mom) is such a wonderful person, God fearing, God loving, everything that God could ask for in a woman. Why didn't God answer her prayers? Why didn't God honor her belief that he would be healed? Why?"

Sad, isn't it. Even though the words from God didn't come true they will still look to new revelation to get answers.
You will see that in this next e-mail

"You are asking the same questions we are all asking……I am looking forward to asking pastor those same questions tonight when I go to church….we are still meeting at the prayer gate tonight and MAYBE someone will give some revelation on this whole situation…..We don’t get it either……..
BUT that probably is the plan of the enemy to bring us to a place of confusion…so that our faith wavers and gives him a way TRY to infiltrate the camp…..I have no answers …. Other than GOD is still on the thrown and what the enemy planed for bad the LORD will turn it for HIS good…..that’s all I know…"

The really sad part is that I know all of these women and they will admit that they know very little about the Bible. Why should they take the hard work to study God's word? They get "a fresh word" from God all the time. One of them told me that God told her what color He wanted her living room painted. I have dubbed this Caroline Kennedy theology. When JFK became President his daughter, Caroline, was very young. Many things where written about her now famous dad. Why should she read any of it? She talked to him directly while sitting on his knee.
With all of these visions and words from God that didn't come true and all the doubts and confusion, they still hold on to error. I will leave you with this last e-mail that was sent a day or so after Josh died. This will show you how far down the slippery slope of current day revelation people can go. So convinced that they heard from God about his healing, they where not about to give up.

Dear Ellen,
I feel like I can ask you this question. I thought about it all day, Mary was over this evening with the Same question, and before she left her house Joan asked the same question....why are we not praying over Josh for God to raise him up from the dead? We took that course at the healing room where we heard about it on more than one occasion, as you know. What's your thoughts on it?
Love,
Debbie

As I have seen with my own eyes, the road of personal revelation from God is littered with the wreckage of biblical illiteracy, lack of true faith, and in severe cases, jettisoning their faith altogether.

Last edited by bassbum; Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:21 AM.
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36085
Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:20 AM
Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Adopted Offline
Addict
Adopted  Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 591
Washington State
Quote
straw said:
He loves you.


I know you are trying to be "nice" but how do you know if this is true or not? Do you say this to everyone as most Arminians do? If so, what about this:

Quote

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. [John 3:36 ASV]


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: Adopted] #36086
Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:32 PM
Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,511
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,511
NH, USA
Denny,

The pervasive error that "God loves you [everyone without discrimination]" is in total opposition to biblical truth. The late Dr. John Gerstner addresses this error most effectively here: Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only His Sin?.

Quote
Psalms 5:5 (ASV) "The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalms 7:11 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day."

Proverbs 6:16-19 (ASV) "There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood; A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief, A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren."

Malachi 1:2-3 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness."

Matthew 7:21-23 (ASV) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew [loved] you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Romans 9:10-13 (ASV) "And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac-- for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: bassbum] #36087
Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 PM
Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
Needs to get a Life
Wes  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Quote
bassbum said:

As I have seen with my own eyes, the road of personal revelation from God is littered with the wreckage of biblical illiteracy, lack of true faith, and in severe cases, jettisoning their faith altogether.


Bassbum,

Thank you for sharing those excellent examples. However, very sad. It goes to show you what happens when people trust in their experiences instead of sound doctrine.

"It is only through Scripture that we receive any knowledge of the direct revelations of God in the past. We know absolutely nothing about God's revelations among Israel through the prophets and finally in Christ, except from the Bible. If this is set aside, we abandon the whole of God’s special revelation, including that in Christ. It is only through the word of the apostles that we can have communion with Christ. Consequently, it is unthinkable that God gave a special revelation and then took no measures to preserve it inviolate for coming generations. Scripture derives its significance exactly from the fact that it is the book of revelation. By means of Scripture God constantly carries His revelation into the world and makes its content effective in the thought and life of man. It is not merely a narrative of what happened years ago, but the perennial speech of God to man. Revelation lives on in Scripture and brings even now, just as it did when it was given, light, life, and holiness. By means of that revelation God continues to renew sinners in their being and consciousness. Scripture is the Holy Spirit's chief instrument for the extension and guidance of the Church, for the perfecting of the saints, and for the building up of the body of Jesus Christ." (Taken from Louis Berkhof’s Systematic Theology, pp. 142-143)


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: 100% Scripture, no supplements [Re: straw] #36088
Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:37 AM
Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
K
Kurt Hutchison Offline
Plebeian
Kurt Hutchison  Offline
Plebeian
K
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
Like Dave, I too have been there, and done that,
and now view following "voices in my head" as foolish
and dangerous.

I find no scriptural justification for fallible
inspiration whatsoever.

I never did, even when I was a Charismatic. When my
prophecies began to fail, that was one of the things
God used to lead me out of the whole mess.

Once I left, this is the thought I was left with:

Daring to put words into God's mouth, I was guilty
of the sin of false prophecy, it was enough to bring tears
to my eyes that I was sinfully discrediting Him, and doing
the Devil's work instead.

I am now keenly aware of all those scriptures about
how God hates false prophecy, and wince now when I hear
others do it, even though I know they do it in ignorance.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 22 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
reformedbygrace, ReformedDisciple, Micki Bowman, Nigel J, wischnotes
928 Registered Users
Shout Box
September
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Today's Birthdays
Sirdude
Popular Topics(Views)
809,252 Gospel truth
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.055s Queries: 16 (0.005s) Memory: 2.9418 MB (Peak: 3.2486 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-20 03:48:23 UTC