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#36423 - Tue May 08, 2007 1:57 PM Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel?  
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evangelist Offline
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germany
I have heard this and read some parts of a very long article about tbn and the evangelist false gospels.
Sence I support their ministry , and have my own tv broadcast , I woud like to discuss this more intensive, with maybe those who lack knowledge , or have a false understanding.


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36424 - Tue May 08, 2007 3:51 PM It would help if you answered a simple question [Re: evangelist]  
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Before beginning the discussion, are you willing to say that you are possibly among those who lack knowledge , or have a false understanding about the nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and if shown to be so from the clear and authoritative Word, are you open to correction in this matter?


In Christ,
Paul S
#36425 - Tue May 08, 2007 7:36 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel? [Re: evangelist]  
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Robin Offline
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While many answers to your question have already been supplied in links provided in other threads, let me just offer a summary of why we maintain that most of the TBN teachers are promoting "a different gospel:"

First, they believe in a different god than the God of the Bible. Their god is dependent upon the will and faith of fallen creatures. His will can be thwarted by the faithlessness of men. The God of the Bible is not dependent upon the will, faith, words, nor actions of His creatures. The God of the Bible is sovereign, and His desires and purpose cannot be thwarted.

Second, these teachers re-define faith, describing it as a neutral "force" which can be employed by any sentient being either for good or evil. The Bible defines faith as a quality of God which is comunicated to those chosen from among fallen Man. It is entirely a gift, given entirely at His sole discretion and pleasure for His own purpose and glory. It is not something which is innate to all men, nor something that can be conjured up at one's own discretion, nor something that can be imparted or cultured by repetition (like a mantra) or by any other form of religious oblation. Faith, according to the Scriptures, comes only as a gifted response to God's word, preached and heard by hearts that have been regenerated. The new birth is from Above. Not from within.

Thirdly, they teach that God is obligated to show mercy to anyone who asks. The Bible teaches exactly the opposite. God is under no obligation to save anyone. And if mercy was obligatory, it could not be called mercy at all! But the TBN teachers place Man in God's place as sovereign ("free will!") and put God at the mercy of our choices. Romans chapter nine (among many other portions of God's infallible word) clearly demonstrates that even the most wicked of men and all their plans are determined from eternity by Almighty God. He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and gives justice to whom He will.

Word of Faith teachings are aimed at teaching people to manipulate ("enable") God into doing stuff for us, giving us what we want, and granting our desires. The Bible teaches the opposite: Dying to self, surrender, and sacrifice. Not giving in order to get, but giving out of sheer joy from hearts that have been made whole. It is we who should seek His desires, not the other way around. TBN's teachers sek to reverse the roles of God and Man, putting God in the place of a servant and portraying God and Satan as nearly equal opponents competing for the souls of men - with Man's will being the deciding factor.

TBN teachings are a damnable mixture of gnosticism with "Christian Science". They are designed to appeal to the twisted hopes of men who are uncomfortable with the fact that they are, from eternity, completely at the mercy of a holy, sovereign God.

When these teachings prove to be false in the lives of millions, these teachers bully their victims with shame and accusations and even threats. It's never that their teachings are wrong, it's always that we failed to congure up sufficient faith or sufficient obedience or sufficient funds ("seed") to reap the expected harvest of health and wealth and hapiness. And for most folks who have never heard the truth and who think they have tried Christianity and been disappointed, the result is abandonment to the world.

Been there, done that, got the teeshirt.

-Robin

#36426 - Wed May 09, 2007 2:23 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel? [Re: evangelist]  
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TN
Quote

Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel?



Here's a few reasons from Kenneth Copeland:

"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord." (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9)

"I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'" (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/9/87)

"God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon", broadcast on TBN, recorded 1988)

God is someone "very much like you and me....A being that stands somewhere around 6'2," 6'3," that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand]span nine inches across." (Kenneth Copeland, Spirit, Soul and Body I, side 1.)

“The earth we live on is a "copy of the mother planet" (Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham" tape # 01-3001)

"God cannot do anything for you apart or separate from faith," (Kenneth Copeland, Freedom from Fear (Fort Worth: KCP Publications, 1983), 11.)

"Faith is God's source of power" (Kenneth Copeland, Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1982), 8.)

"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," 3.)

"The Spirit of God spoke to me, and He said "Son, realize this" Now follow me in this, don't let your tradition trip you up. He said "Think this way. A twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain." And I threw my Bible..I said "What?" He said "A born-again man defeated Satan - the first-born of many brethren defeated him." He said "You are the very image, and the very copy of that one." I said "Goodness Gracious, saints alive." I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said "Well you don? mean - You couldn't dare mean that I could have done the same thing?" He said "Oh yeah. If you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did you could've done the same thing cause you're a re-born man too." (Kenneth Copeland, "Substitution and Identification" (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989, audio tape #00-0202, side 2)


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#36427 - Wed May 09, 2007 2:37 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel? [Re: evangelist]  
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Quote

Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel?



And here's a few more from Benny Hinn

"Poverty comes from Hell. Prosperity comes from Heaven. Adam had complete dominion over the earth and all it contains. A. Adam could fly like a bird. B. Adam could swim underwater and breathe like a fish. Adam went to the moon. Adam walked on water. Adam was a super being, He was the first superman that lived. Adam had dominion over the sun, moon & stars. Christians do not have Christ in their hearts. Sow a big seed, when you confess it, you are activating the supernatural forces of God." (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)

"When you don't give money, it shows that you have the devil's nature." (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded 4/21/91)

"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

"Christians are "Little Messiah's and "little gods" on the earth. Thus [Encouraging the audience]...say "I am a God-man....This spirit-man within me is a God-man..." say "I'm born of heaven-a God-man. I'm a God man. I am a sample of Jesus. I'm a super being. Say it! Say it! Who's a super being? "I walk in the realm of the supernatural." Say it!...You want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and centre. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness....Say after me, "everything I ever want is in me already." (Benny Hinn, TBN, 1990)

"Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Life your hands. Something new is going to happen here today. I felt it just as I waled down here. Holy Spirit, take over in the name of Jesus…God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He is a triune being by Himself separate from the Son and the Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is aperson, God the Holy Ghost is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you—and maybe I should—there’s nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, with his own personal soul, and his own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you’re in this church to hear things you’ve heard for the last 50 years?" (Benny Hinn, TBN (October 3, 1991).

"God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost—three separate individuals, one in essence, one in work—and, may I add, each one of them possess His own spirit-body. You don’t like it?" (Benny Hinn, Praise the Lord program on TBN (October 23, 1992).

"Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew the only way He would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him. You say, ‘What did you say? What blasphemy is this?’ No, you hear this! He did not take my sin; He became my sin. Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan…It was sin that made Satan. Jesus said, "I’ll be sin! I’ll go to the lowest place! I’ll go to the origin of it! I won’t just take part in it, I’ll be the totality of it!" When Jesus became sin, sir, He took it from A to Z and said, "No more!" Think about this: He became flesh, that flesh might become like Him. He became death, so dying man can live. He became sin, so sinners can be righteous in Him. He became one with the nature of Satan, so all those who had the nature of Satan can partake of the nature of God." (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn program on TBN (December 15, 1990).


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#36428 - Wed May 09, 2007 5:17 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel? [Re: Robin]  
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Robin,

What you have listed is so true, but there is so much more for anyone to look and see. Personally I prefer to just refer to the overwhelming majority of "preachers" on TBN as "heretical maniacs". I think Phil Johnson, on his website, says it best:

Quote

TBN
"The largest Christian television network in the world"—unfortunately. The spirit of Tetzel is alive and well on cable TV. Bad doctrine, spurious claims of divine revelation, mawkish emotions, gaudy makeup, and tawdry decorations all contribute to the unique ambience that is TBN. To borrow some biblical language, TBN is "the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird" (cf. Rev. 18:2).


<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#36429 - Sat May 12, 2007 11:41 AM Re: It would help if you answered a simple questio [Re: Paul_S]  
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Quote
Paul_S said:
Before beginning the discussion, are you willing to say that you are possibly among those who lack knowledge , or have a false understanding about the nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and if shown to be so from the clear and authoritative Word, are you open to correction in this matter?


Yes , because I have the fruits of the spirts, and I have a meek spirit, and long -suffering with patience.
Shalom


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36430 - Sat May 12, 2007 11:49 AM Re: It would help if you answered a simple questio [Re: evangelist]  
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I want to thank everyone for their personal opinions.
I would like to know if they are teaching another gospel like JHW or mormons,and a false gospel like Islam?
Do they come against the death burial, and resurrection to be teaching another gospel?
Do they teach against the trinity , and the personal relationship with Jesus Christ ?
Do they teach against the final authority of the bible?
Do they teach another gospel about the nlood of Jesus?
Do they teach we should have christian pride, and teach we must be first putting me, myself, and I before others even in understanding , and beliefs as such?

Shalom!


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36431 - Sat May 12, 2007 12:19 PM Re: It would help if you answered a simple questio [Re: evangelist]  
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Quote

evangelist said:
I want to thank everyone for their personal opinions.
I would like to know if they are teaching another gospel like JHW or mormons,and a false gospel like Islam?
Do they come against the death burial, and resurrection to be teaching another gospel?
Do they teach against the trinity , and the personal relationship with Jesus Christ ?
Do they teach against the final authority of the bible?
Do they teach another gospel about the nlood of Jesus?
Do they teach we should have christian pride, and teach we must be first putting me, myself, and I before others even in understanding , and beliefs as such?


Have you read the other posts in this thread so far, especiallly Robin's? First, please answer the post by Paul and then please read Robin's post and ask questions or make comments about what he has posted.

You have asked six questions and the answer to each and every one is YES.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#36432 - Sun May 13, 2007 12:01 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: Robin]  
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Quote
Robin said:
While many answers to your question have already been supplied in links provided in other threads, let me just offer a summary of why we maintain that most of the TBN teachers are promoting "a different gospel:"

First, they believe in a different god than the God of the Bible. Their god is dependent upon the will and faith of fallen creatures. His will can be thwarted by the faithlessness of men. The God of the Bible is not dependent upon the will, faith, words, nor actions of His creatures. The God of the Bible is sovereign, and His desires and purpose cannot be thwarted.

Second, these teachers re-define faith, describing it as a neutral "force" which can be employed by any sentient being either for good or evil. The Bible defines faith as a quality of God which is comunicated to those chosen from among fallen Man. It is entirely a gift, given entirely at His sole discretion and pleasure for His own purpose and glory. It is not something which is innate to all men, nor something that can be conjured up at one's own discretion, nor something that can be imparted or cultured by repetition (like a mantra) or by any other form of religious oblation. Faith, according to the Scriptures, comes only as a gifted response to God's word, preached and heard by hearts that have been regenerated. The new birth is from Above. Not from within.

Thirdly, they teach that God is obligated to show mercy to anyone who asks. The Bible teaches exactly the opposite. God is under no obligation to save anyone. And if mercy was obligatory, it could not be called mercy at all! But the TBN teachers place Man in God's place as sovereign ("free will!") and put God at the mercy of our choices. Romans chapter nine (among many other portions of God's infallible word) clearly demonstrates that even the most wicked of men and all their plans are determined from eternity by Almighty God. He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and gives justice to whom He will.

Word of Faith teachings are aimed at teaching people to manipulate ("enable") God into doing stuff for us, giving us what we want, and granting our desires. The Bible teaches the opposite: Dying to self, surrender, and sacrifice. Not giving in order to get, but giving out of sheer joy from hearts that have been made whole. It is we who should seek His desires, not the other way around. TBN's teachers sek to reverse the roles of God and Man, putting God in the place of a servant and portraying God and Satan as nearly equal opponents competing for the souls of men - with Man's will being the deciding factor.

TBN teachings are a damnable mixture of gnosticism with "Christian Science". They are designed to appeal to the twisted hopes of men who are uncomfortable with the fact that they are, from eternity, completely at the mercy of a holy, sovereign God.

When these teachings prove to be false in the lives of millions, these teachers bully their victims with shame and accusations and even threats. It's never that their teachings are wrong, it's always that we failed to congure up sufficient faith or sufficient obedience or sufficient funds ("seed") to reap the expected harvest of health and wealth and hapiness. And for most folks who have never heard the truth and who think they have tried Christianity and been disappointed, the result is abandonment to the world.

Been there, done that, got the teeshirt.

-Robin


Is all this your personal opinions, or some copy and paste from someone else who might be anti christian tv person, or groups?


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36433 - Sun May 13, 2007 12:08 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: BradJHammond]  
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germany
Quote
BradJHammond said:
Quote

Why people think TBN preacher , another gospel?



Here's a few reasons from Kenneth Copeland:

"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord." (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9)

"I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'" (Kenneth Copeland, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN, recorded 7/9/87)

"God is the biggest failure in the Bible...the reason you've never thought that is because He never said He was one".(Kenneth Copeland, "Praise-a-thon", broadcast on TBN, recorded 1988)

God is someone "very much like you and me....A being that stands somewhere around 6'2," 6'3," that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand]span nine inches across." (Kenneth Copeland, Spirit, Soul and Body I, side 1.)

“The earth we live on is a "copy of the mother planet" (Kenneth Copeland, "Following the Faith of Abraham" tape # 01-3001)

"God cannot do anything for you apart or separate from faith," (Kenneth Copeland, Freedom from Fear (Fort Worth: KCP Publications, 1983), 11.)

"Faith is God's source of power" (Kenneth Copeland, Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1982), 8.)

"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," 3.)

"The Spirit of God spoke to me, and He said "Son, realize this" Now follow me in this, don't let your tradition trip you up. He said "Think this way. A twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain." And I threw my Bible..I said "What?" He said "A born-again man defeated Satan - the first-born of many brethren defeated him." He said "You are the very image, and the very copy of that one." I said "Goodness Gracious, saints alive." I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said "Well you don? mean - You couldn't dare mean that I could have done the same thing?" He said "Oh yeah. If you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did you could've done the same thing cause you're a re-born man too." (Kenneth Copeland, "Substitution and Identification" (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989, audio tape #00-0202, side 2)


BradJHammond

Are you really trying to understand what Copeland has said?
Are you reading what you posted with a open heart?
Some how I think you are taking him completly out of context, beside the humor you are also missing and thinking he is being serious.


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36434 - Sun May 13, 2007 12:17 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: Adopted]  
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Quote
Adopted said:
Robin,

What you have listed is so true, but there is so much more for anyone to look and see. Personally I prefer to just refer to the overwhelming majority of "preachers" on TBN as "heretical maniacs". I think Phil Johnson, on his website, says it best:

Quote

TBN
"The largest Christian television network in the world"—unfortunately. The spirit of Tetzel is alive and well on cable TV. Bad doctrine, spurious claims of divine revelation, mawkish emotions, gaudy makeup, and tawdry decorations all contribute to the unique ambience that is TBN. To borrow some biblical language, TBN is "the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird" (cf. Rev. 18:2).


<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Re:18:1: And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Has this verse above already happen or is this a time past, present , or future verse, maybe after the tribulations??

Re:18:2: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Alot of people have tried to interpretate this verse that it is for the Catholic church, not a TBN or Christian group.


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
#36435 - Sun May 13, 2007 1:33 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: evangelist]  
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Quote
evangelist said:
Is all this your personal opinions, or some copy and paste from someone else who might be anti christian tv person, or groups?


As I said above, been there, done that. I was in that movement for over 20 years. I was a CBN and TBN "phone counselor" for some of that time. I went to their schools (Word of Faith) and taught their doctrines for several years. I prophesied, cast out demons, laid hands on the sick and saw them recover - all the above. I was on my way to being "a general in God's army... called to the ministry from my mother's womb" according to one well-known Scottish evangelist... all by the age of fourteen.

I'm here to tell you from experience that none of it was from God. Every bit of it was fabricated either by ego, ambitious imagination, and much of it directly communicated to me by demons.

So it is with every single "evangelist" you have named in this thread.

-Robin

#36436 - Sun May 13, 2007 7:00 PM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: evangelist]  
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evangelist said:
Re:18:2: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Alot of people have tried to interpretate this verse that it is for the Catholic church, not a TBN or Christian group.


I believe you're missing the point. It really doesn't matter whether you interpret "Babylon the great" as the Roman Catholic Church or as any and all antichristian religions that presents a false gospel. The point is that nearly all of the "preachers" on TBN do preach another (and very deceptive Arminian) gospel of works or "free will" righteousness. This is especially true of the preachers you mentioned. Nearly all of these preachers believe or attempt to deceive others into believing that they are "special" in God's eyes and that He speaks to them personally, directly and outside of the Scripture.

They all live in multi-million dollar houses (sometimes two or more) and wear thousand dollar suits and dresses. They have jet airplanes and have $100,000 automobiles. For the most part they get their money by contributions from very poor unlearned people who watch them on TV and believe in the heresies that they teach. And these so-called preachers are sure to remind them that the more they give, the more God will "bless" them. Many thousands of these people are shut-ins and/or widows with only Social Security checks.

Quote

I have raised Him up in righteousness, and I will direct His ways: He shall build my city, and He shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts. [Isaiah 45:13, KJV]


Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
#36437 - Tue May 15, 2007 8:49 AM Re: Why people think TBN preacher , another gosp [Re: Robin]  
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Quote
Robin said:
Quote
evangelist said:
Is all this your personal opinions, or some copy and paste from someone else who might be anti christian tv person, or groups?


As I said above, been there, done that. I was in that movement for over 20 years. I was a CBN and TBN "phone counselor" for some of that time. I went to their schools (Word of Faith) and taught their doctrines for several years. I prophesied, cast out demons, laid hands on the sick and saw them recover - all the above. I was on my way to being "a general in God's army... called to the ministry from my mother's womb" according to one well-known Scottish evangelist... all by the age of fourteen.

I'm here to tell you from experience that none of it was from God. Every bit of it was fabricated either by ego, ambitious imagination, and much of it directly communicated to me by demons.

So it is with every single "evangelist" you have named in this thread.

-Robin


I wounder if God knows what is happening behind the scences, and maybe you should inform God, sence you been there , and done that.
I guess Evangelists , and all ministrys is exactly the same, like you posted directed and supported by demons. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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