The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Heretics in the PCA?

I've moved this post because it starts a new topic. CIB

I visited J.W. Robbins' website and found the following there:


Apart from the FV and AAT matters that he refers to in his resignation letter, are there any other heretical preachers in the PCA? These are strong words.

Johan

I think FV/NPP/AAT (I wonder how many names there will be to describe it in a few more years) is the main thing. Robbins, along with many many others, is unhappy that the PCA dragged it's feet for so long while this heresy got a strong foothold in the denomination. The courts of the denomination can be agonizingly slow sometimes. When the PCA finally did address this issue in a denomination-wide way, they bypassed the "normal" procedure - otherwise it would have taken even longer and in that time perhaps many others might have been carried off to FV's version of Rome.

If I read Robbins bio correctly, he was ordained as a Ruling Elder, not a Teaching Elder in the PCA. He does not have a MDiv. He did have a licensed to preach from Westminster Presbytery which is the most dysfunctional Presbytery in the PCA. Though he is correct in the NPP/FV/AAT debacle, his hard-noseness on pet issues (with the NPP/FV/AAT being just one of many) makes others view him with skepticism.

If anyone would care to reply, what do you think of his take on the OPC and Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia?

This is OLD NEWS. Go to half the PCA churches in the US, and Reformed Theology would be unrecognizable. If you didn't know it was a PCA church, you might think it an Assemblies of God, a Free Methodist, or the like.

That is just not true.

John C -

I have been in 8 PCA churches in my life, when visiting upon travel or when looking for churches.

Of these 8, 2 were Charismatic.
Of the 6 non-Charismatic PCA churches, 2 were Dispensational (which would be music to my ears but would hardly fit with what the PCA is to hold theologically).

So now we are left with four churches. Of those four, two had preaching that clearly taught faith + works. It was not my ears mishearing Lordship salvation, but a clear faith + works.

Thus, of the 8, two seemed to potentially fit into what the PCA is 'supposed' to teach. And I only went to these churches once or twice. Remember - you can determine error upon 1 visit, but it takes a long time to determine if a church is 'correct'. And, with 1 or 2 visits, I was able to determine 6 of 8 churches were preaching contrary to official PCA doctrine. I detected nothing contrary to official PCA doctrine in 2 churches, but I only went to these once, maybe twice.

Granted my sample size is limited. It is limited to 8 Churches. Being a Statistician by trade, 8 is not enough of a sample size to extrapolate to the entire denomination. But remember, I said 6 of 8 were teaching contrary to PCA doctrine, and that works out to be 75%. Thus, I allowed for some deviation, and made the generous claim of 50%.

If others had not reported of problems with the PCA, I would have written off my 6 of 8 experience to 'bad luck' or isolated incidents (even though these 8 churches were across 4 times zones).

As an aside, I have been in 9 Anglican/Episcopal Churches in my day in the United States. Of these, 3 taught proper doctrine when compared to the 39 Articles (1 Reformed Episcopal, 1 Anglican Province of Christ the King, 2 Episcopal Church USA). Of the 5 that did not, 1 was Reformed Episcopal, and the other 4 were Episcopal Church USA.

I've been in 2 PCA churches in Presbyteries of 30 or so churches and I haven't heard of any churches fitting your description. In addition, I have numerous PCA friends in other Presbyteries who haven't said anything about churches fitting those descriptions. Now, I have heard about some odd ball churches with questionable practices but they are far from being anywhere near the norm within the PCA.

Now, there are those who may make those types of claims because their particular form of Theonomy, RPW, or pet non-essentials are not practice as the norm in the PCA.

John,

Your protest against Steve's admittedly unscientific "statistical conclusion" reminds me of what I used to hear constantly from members of the CRC back in the '70's, aka: denominational loyalty. Now there is no sense trying to argue whether or not 50% of the congregations in the PCA are "unacceptable" for whatever reason or any actual percentage for that matter. But what cannot be disputed is that the PCA's "broad-mindedness" with its clergy, doctrinal and practical issues. The NPP/FV fiasco is but one of many things which could be used to illustrate this indictment.

Contrary to your experience, over several decades, I have had the opportunity to visit myriad PCA church websites for various reasons. Invariably, there is often mention of the Westminster Standards as being the doctrinal foundation of the church. But looking further at their "Statement of Faith" documents, all too often what I have found is a gross contradiction. Many are clearly semi-Pelagian, and some worse. Many "advertise" their churches as "contemporary" and use questionable Madison Avenue marketing strategies and worldly psychology to lure newcomers. And there is the matter of contemporary "worship", an odious thing indeed and one that is a black mark on the face of Christianity itself, not to mention the PCA. Further, there have been PCA congregations which openly sell themselves as "charismatic". The pastors of these churches are ordained in the PCA and openly teach an anti-cessatioinism doctrine.

So, in my particular experience, what I have found is that the number of conservative, historic Reformed churches in either doctrine and/or practice are in the minority. This disparity is not restricted to the PCA, but in my estimation it is applicable to nearly ALL denominations today. Hiding one's head in the sand and resting upon what looks good on paper in regard to what a church or denomination should be only contributes to the sad state of affairs in which the modern Church in general is in.

That's my

In His grace,

Thanks for the response to my question.

Perhaps one further question along the same line: What is the situation at Covenant Seminary then?

Johan

This might help to answer your question Johan, The PCA's Apostasy: No More Lines in the Sand