Donations for the month of September


We have received a total of $0 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
Meta4
Meta4
Canada
Posts: 48
Joined: May 2016
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,686
Posts51,432
Members928
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,513
Tom 3,526
chestnutmare 2,920
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,769
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 17
Pilgrim 16
Johan 2
Meta4 2
John_C 1
Recent Posts
Compromise in our own denominations
by Tom. Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:40 AM
Guilt or Innocence Does it Matter?
by Tom. Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:55 PM
Big Thank You!
by Tom. Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:19 PM
Same Sex Atraction
by Pilgrim. Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:33 AM
What will it like to live in Heaven
by Pilgrim. Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:32 PM
Bill 89 taking children from Christian homes
by Tom. Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:10 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Peter] #37569
Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:45 PM
Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Whew..... now that's good to hear. I was not a little worried that Roger Nicole had departed the ranks. [Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Pilgrim] #37570
Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:57 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
K
Kurt Hutchison Offline
Plebeian
Kurt Hutchison  Offline
Plebeian
K
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
Ok guys, I am confused.

R.C. Sproul in his book "Willing to Believe" which traces the history of Pelagianism and Arminianism states that Arminians are saved "but just barely".

But he does not elaborate as to why, although he implies it is because they accept faith alone (justification), even though they do not accept grace alone (monergism).

But in the above article, "The Pelagian Captivity of the Church" he pretty clearly takes the position that today's Arminians aren't saved at all.

Are the Hyper-Calvinists right in at least one aspect that so-called "Arminians" who in reality today are "Semi-Pelagian" aren't saved?

Does the WCF take a clear stand on this, eg. anathemizes Arminianism as the Canons of Dort did?

thanks,
- Kurt

Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Kurt Hutchison] #37571
Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:21 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Kurt,

Unfortunately, I too have found a few "inconsistencies" in what R.C. Sproul, Sr. has written over the years on a particular topic. Obviously, I believe what he wrote in the article, "The Pelagian Captivity of the Church" to be the correct view. However, I think it is more than important to say again, that IF <---- a semi-Pelagian/Arminian REALLY believes in his heart what his theology states, then he/she cannot be saved. Why? Because that individual is resting primarily upon his/her "free-will decision for Christ" rather upon grace alone in Christ alone. Those theologies teach synergism: grace + works (free-will choice) = justification. Only by questioning an individual can one make a reasonably sure determination of that person's spiritual condition/state. So again, if a person's heart (deep conviction) is consistent with his/her head knowledge, if semi-Pelagian/Arminian, then they are not saved.

The hyper-Calvinists you refer to err in making a cart blanc prohibition against any and all who profess semi-Pelagianism or Arminianism as to salvation. They leave no room whatsoever for the exception of someone who meets the criteria above, i.e., their hearts rest squarely and only upon grace alone in Christ alone, despite their embracing doctrines that deny such.

The WCF does not make a clear statement on this issue as does the Canons of Dordt mainly because of the intent in writing the document, i.e., it was not polemic in nature as was the Canons of Dordt. If the writers of the WCF were to include a section on this subject, they would have undoubtedly echoed the Canons of Dordt.

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Pilgrim] #37572
Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:11 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
K
Kurt Hutchison Offline
Plebeian
Kurt Hutchison  Offline
Plebeian
K
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Santa Cruz, CA
Doesn't this require that monergists (in general) need to evangelize synergists, and to treat them as unsaved (allowing for the exception you mention)? Don't all the verses that prohibit fellowship, joint ministry, marriage, church discipline, come into play here?

I don't know of anyone who practices this other than the hypers, am I just uninformed?

Do any reformed denominations practice these things that you know of?

thanks,
- Kurt

Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Kurt Hutchison] #37573
Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:51 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Quote
Kurt Hutchison said:
Doesn't this require that monergists (in general) need to evangelize synergists, and to treat them as unsaved (allowing for the exception you mention)? Don't all the verses that prohibit fellowship, joint ministry, marriage, church discipline, come into play here?

Yes and yes, IMHO. Even IF someone wants to include all professing semi-Pelagians and/or Arminians as true believers, joint ministries and marriages are at best problematic. I will assume I don't need to elucidate the various situations where things would be strained at best and near impossible at worst should the two groups be joined. Calvinism is disdained by most and even hated today. That being true, how could a semi-Pelagian group join with a Calvinist group to evangelize together? [Linked Image] For a "mixed" marriage, the choices of churches, type of worship, family devotions, books to be read, etc., etc. would all be contentious issues.

In regard to who practices these things I haven't a clue and to be honest it isn't my concern. I can only be true to my own convictions. I can tell you that I could not be a member of a church that professed to adhere to the Reformation Confessions but promoted semi-Pelagian/Arminian doctrines, materials, methodologies, etc. and/or bartered away those great truths for the sake of "unity" with non-Reformed churches/groups. That kind of open and blatant hypocrisy is unacceptable to this old guy. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Johan] #37574
Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:47 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Quote
Johan said:
Tom, am I understanding you correctly that the CRC has people in it that actively support semi-pelagianism? And that Schuler and Willow Creek is semi-pelagian?

Johan


Actually although I don't want to judge their hearts, but I would say that do support semi-pelagianism. But they seem to believe that Schuller and Hybels are Reformed.
If you are interested in finding out more I would suggest that you go to the CRC home page and ask them what they think of these ministries.
This is one of the things I did when finding out about the CRC.

Tom

Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive? [Re: Tom] #37575
Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:53 PM
Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 323
South Africa
Johan Offline OP

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline OP

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 323
South Africa
Tom, I will visit their home page. It seems to me that in many cases officially the doctrine may not be semi-pelagian on paper but that in practice it is different.

Johan

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 25 guests, and 104 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
reformedbygrace, ReformedDisciple, Micki Bowman, Nigel J, wischnotes
928 Registered Users
Shout Box
September
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
812,329 Gospel truth
Page Time: 0.055s Queries: 16 (0.006s) Memory: 2.9036 MB (Peak: 3.1974 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-26 08:33:33 UTC