Donations for the month of April


We have received a total of $0 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
Anthony C.
Anthony C.
NJ/PA
Posts: 218
Joined: May 2016
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,620
Posts51,086
Members925
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,409
Tom 3,424
chestnutmare 2,910
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,754
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 20
Tom 11
cathmg 5
Tina 3
John_C 3
Kaylin 1
Recent Posts
Dispensationalism
by Pilgrim. Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:13 AM
What exactly is a confessional church
by Pilgrim. Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:18 PM
James White Article
by Pilgrim. Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:10 PM
Importance of dating the destruction of the Temple
by Pilgrim. Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:13 PM
A study of the Heidelberg Catechism
by cathmg. Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:58 PM
"The Reformed View of Sanctification" - Sinclair Ferguson
by Pilgrim. Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:04 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
How are Elders Trained? #37617
Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:20 AM
Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
Quote
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-13, NASB).


I'm not sure how we Presbyterians have managed to justify and maintain the distinction between "ruling" elders and "teaching" elders in our churches, but I do know that all elders are supposed to be "able to teach (1st Timothy 3:2)" among other things. Yet most churches do not even offer - let alone require - training in doctrine or skillful use of the Bible. For some there is an "officer training class" that is finished in a few short weeks and serves to "qualify" church officers as elders and or deacons. Perhaps there is such a shortage of men willing to serve as church officers that there is pressure to qualify the few who are willing as quickly as possible. But oh, the extreme danger in doing so!

Of course no amount of Bible and theological training can, by itself, qualify anyone for church office, be it pastor or "ruling" elder or deacon. It takes much more than mere proficiency in doctrine and knowing one's way around the Bible to serve administratively or otherwise in the Body of Christ. But it is by far the most desperate need in churches today. I really doubt that my former church (PCA) would have sank to the level of teaching a class on the Purpose Driven Life had they been adequately trained and equipped Biblically. It would have been enough for the pastor or the Session to simply make a ruling and state for the congregation that the theology and premise behind the popular books is unBiblical and not endorsed by their church. But it never could go even that far at our church, because despite the 10-week "leadership training" class, our elders enthusiastically embraced the books and taught a course on the "purpose driven" theme. There's no way that should have happened in a Reformed church, and no way I should have been so quickly dismissed and told to "lighten up" when I said so.

So what am I suggesting - that every elder and deacon should hold a degree from a Bible college or seminary? Is that realistic?

Yes. On both counts.

There is absolutely no reason to have untrained "undershepherds" managing the household of faith and holding the pastor accountable for what he teaches. And there is absolutely no reason why the local presbytery or association should not provide this training to anyone who requests it.

However:

I have read that it takes only about 40 years for even the most solid of denominations to apostasize. And the evidence also shows that such apostasy usually occurs "from the top down," beginning among the highest educated seminary professors and most venerated clergy members. So doesn't that prove the opposite of what I just said above? Not at all. Here is why:

Liberalism is attractive to untrained elders and deacons, who promote their ear-tickling pastor and provide him with funding to publish books and go on speaking engagements. Officers with good grounding in "the faith once delivered" would censure the same stuff. Liberals who gain high ecclesiastical standing are given that standing by ignorant, untrained church officers who see it as a way to advance their church and its standing. Ambition and glory-seeking is fed by promoting books and tapes and conferences. It is very prestigious to be an officer in the church that develops the Next Big Thing. It's not unlike the competitive adolescent need of Charismatic churches to be On the Cutting Edge of What God is Doing in the Earth Today.

The very highly educated, the very wise, the very noble, and the very wealthy face unique spiritual peril. And if they are accountable to and surrounded by untrained officers with power over the church budget and responsibility for the spiritual care of the flock, the pride and ambition that they are especially vulnerable to can be easily ignored and quickly misidentified as "promoting the ministry of the gospel" rather than promoting the man and his organization. This is why we must pray constantly and fervently for our leaders, and pastors in particular! Especially if they excel and gain notoriety for published books or fame for gifted oratory or popularity for innovative ministry. But my point is that officers who are adequately equipped in doctrine and personal discipline and equal in authority to the pastor are a lot less likely to fall due to ignorance or ambition. And more likely and more able to protect a pastor whose gifts expose him to the unique and terrible temptations of fame and prestige.

How are elders recruited and trained in YOUR church?

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37618
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:37 PM
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Robin,

It is quite remarkable that you ask this question at this time. Yesterday the elders in our congregation had a morning long meeting to again talk about our calling as elders and to discuss the practical aspects of being elders. And your question about training of elders is something that I also have thought about. I am not going to try to explicitly answer your question. Rather I will tell how it works and have worked in our denomination for many years. And then in the evening service earlier tonight the sermon was also about the elders.

Let me start to say that perhaps the central texts in the NT that refers to duties and character of the elders are 1 Peter 5:1-4, 1 Tim 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-8. Paul's address to the elders of the church in Ephesus in Acts 20:17-37 also gives us direct hints as to the duties of the elders. Perhaps the main duty of the elders is to shepherd the flock of God.

We have a special formulary that is read with the ordaining of elders. The duties of the elders are (try to translate freely from Afrikaans and to shorten it a bit): (1) That there is good order in the church and that the Word and sacraments are presented regularly and that the sacraments are kept holy. The elders should see that the ministers of the Word (ordained pastors), other elders and deacons faithfully do their duties and to assist the pastor with good advice. (2) The elders should see to it that the members of the church live according to the faith they profess. (3) In particular should the elders oversee that the minister of the Word keeps to the pure doctrine and that their lives testify of the Godly calling. To see to it that no false doctrine is being taught.(4) Should partake in evangilization.

Okay, that's already a lot said. The question is how does it work in practice. Two things: (1) It is said that in the 1850's when our churches separated from the old Cape Dutch Reformed Church due to false doctrine that was contained in certain hymns and preached by some ministers, it was the elders who were the first line of defence. I can say that since the 1850's there has been no split in our churches. (2) There is no formal training of elders.

In practice, elders in our churches are expected to do house visitations of the church members. We have wards and each elder has a ward with 6 - 10 families. This makes that there are perhaps too many elders. Even though there are some negative points that we can raise against this system, it does have the one positive effect of the elders knowing the people in the church. And four times per year we have to report at an elders' meeting on the members in our ward.

As for the lack of formal training I am not sure whether it still is a good thing not to have formal training. Now the fact that we didn't had a split in our churches for 150 years can, I think, on the one hand be ascribed to the fact that the elders have as their to duty to see to it that false teaching is not preached. This means that the elders certainly has to have good knowledge of the reformed doctrine. I am treading on thin ice when I say that I suspect that more than 50 years ago the elders in our churches had a better idea of reformed doctrine than most elders today.

However, I think over the last decade or so things have changed a lot for the churches in SA. You mention liberalization. There defintely are new forces at work in our churches that has not been there for many years. I think churches in the US and Europe have been much more under attack of liberalism than what has been the case in South Africa. Now, all of a sudden we are confronted with the very subtle things that came with post-modernism. And I am not sure whether the elders are equipped to identify these very subtle things. I don't say that I am properly equipped either.

Within our local church I would say that we have some really "good" elders. In fact recalling yesterday's meeting I think I can say with a clear conscience that each of the elders love our Lord Jesus Christ in whose service we stand. But I feel worried that not all of us have a similar understanding of what the authority of Scripture really mean or should mean. As I already said in some of my first posts on this board last year, the issue of women as elders is on the table at our next synod. And then there is the matter of church music on which we also don't have the same opinion. I ask myself why this is so. I have no facts but I am pretty sure that 50 - 100 years ago most elders had the same opinion on these matters. I am therefor really struggling with myself that I struggle to understand the statements made by some elders. Sometimes it feels to me that I am the only one that holds an orthodox position. And I don't think I hold such a position simply because I am old fashioned and want to keep up the tradition but rather that I am convinced that the Lord does not accept any arbitrary form of worship where secular ideas have been imported.

At the moment then my view is that unless elder training is strictly done within some well defined doctrinal boundaries there will always be tension and I am not sure whether that is good for the congregation. I think I have in an earlier post also mentioned that there are elders who are Purpose Driven fans and one who have no problem with Robert Schuler and many of the TBN preachers.

There is still a lot more that can be said but I'd rather leave it at this point hear what others have to say.

Johan

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37619
Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:22 AM
Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,754
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Online content

Permanent Resident
John_C  Online Content

Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,754
Mississippi Gulf Coast
Robin,

My church does it mostly like the way you describe not to do it. Besides going through a 3-6 weeks training, the church does require the officer to answer a questionnaire based on their personal Christian experience and on the WCF. Since the PCA has started requiring Bible (whatever it is called), I am sure that will be thrown in as an additional questionnaire.

Though I see your points, I do not agree that all officers be degreed holders in Seminary or Bible College. Are you implying a paid officer staff because most people will want their paid vocation be in whatever field they are formally trained? I've known plenty of RE who spent years in teaching SS classes and Bible studies who are quite knowledgeable in Christian and doctrinal matters. They have not received any formal training whatsoever.

Also, I dispute whether liberalism creeps into the church by so-called ignorant lay officers. I think it can be proven that liberalism creeps into the church by trained Pastors from seminaries and Bible colleges, not from those who has no formal training. Now of course their untraining may prove easy fodder for the trained liberal theologian, but that is another story - isn't. it.

As to the PCA system, I am sure there should be more accountability, but how to go about it is no easy answer. The men who are elected as REs in their local churches are seen as spiritual leaders in the church.

Last edited by John_C; Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:24 AM.

John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: John_C] #37620
Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:08 AM
Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
I agree with John that error and false teaching usually starts either in the study of the pastor or the professor at the seminary. If it infiltrates the seminary it spreads to the students and from there to the churches. One can find many examples of this.

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Johan] #37621
Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:37 AM
Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
I think y'all missed the point. We agree that liberalism first takes root in seminaries. When a teaching elder brings that liberalism to a congregation, it is the (so-called) ruling elders that are supposed to intervene. But they're "not qualified" to argue with the (so-called) teaching elder because, after all, he's seminary trained and they're not.

What I am suggesting is that all elders be trained at least to the Bible college level at no financial cost to them through seminars and courses offered through their own church under the guidance of presbytery or something like that.

Perhaps so equipped, they would be better able to guard the flock against the liberalism that creeps in through the "professional" ranks. Seminary officers and faculty should be scrutinized by those trained "ruling" elders and the Standards upheld without the compromises that are allowed because of "professional courtesy" or simply left to continue growing unchallenged by untrained "lay" elders who mount no defense against heresies because "the clergy knows better - they're seminary trained after all." Get my drift now?

For the same reason we believe in plurality of elders, we must train those elders sufficiently to guard the flock against the Clergy Elite and their "superior" professional education.

I'm not suggesting that all elders become "paid staff members" as a vocation, nor that they invest thousands of their own dollars in their training. But I am suggesting that untrained elders are ill equipped to oppose liberalism when it is introduced by a "seminary trained professional."

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37622
Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:05 PM
Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Robin,

I am not convinced that training as such is sufficient to guard against heresy. If training alone is the issue then heresy or liberalism should not originate in the seminaries because these people are trained. Heresy and liberalism originate in seminaries and in the studies of pastors in spite of the fact they are trained people. I agree completely with you that we sometimes cannot stand up against the arguments of the liberal preacher who attended seminary, knows Greek and Hebrew and who spends a lot of time developing some kind of "new" idea. But then I ask myself the question why a person that studies the Bible on a daily basis has a liberal approach or concoct a heresy? If one academic can influence another academic about his/her opinion then a trained elder can also be influenced negatively in the same way.

When we want to guard against liberalism or heresy my opinion is that we have to go down one level to a more basic level. Is this not the level of presuppositions? Is this not where things either go in the right or the wrong way? I quote the following from " Introduction to Biblical Interpretation " by Klein, Bromberg and Hubbard:

Quote
The computer industry has popularized a basic truth, immortalized in the acronym GIGO - "garbage in, garbage out". That is, what you get out directly depends on what you put in. This principle is especially true in interpretation. The aims and presuppositions of interpreters govern and even determine their interpretations.


Thus, unless in the training of elders we do not first agree on the presuppositions, I cannot see that training alone will do the thing. This is perhaps the reason why I am struggling to understand statements made by some of my fellow elders - our presuppositions differ.


Johan

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Johan] #37623
Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 PM
Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Johan,

Personally, I see great value in what Robin has espoused.. perhaps because I hold the same idea(s). Regardless of why or how heresy enters the Church (it was happening in Paul's day too), it is essential that Elders AND Deacons be educated. Whether that entails sending a few men at a time to a local well-established Bible College that adheres to the historic Reformed Faith... is there such a place today? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> Or, they are trained by the seminary-trained preaching Elder. Or, if they take it upon themselves to read established Systematic Theology texts, e.g., Berkhof, Hodge, etc. They are to be well grounded in the truth of Scripture as well as as being fluent in the Bible itself.

Now, I also agree with you that education alone will never stem the tide of never-ceasing heresy. But I would have to believe that Robin wasn't even hinting that be the case. Some of the greatest minds that have been in the Church have apostatized. This is inarguably due to two things: 1) a weak man with an errant heart, and 2) the influence of the Evil One. Brother, there is a full-blown war going on in the world. And from the very day man was put on this earth, that war became evident, even though it preceded man.

What the Reformed churches have in their favor, although not a failsafe thing, are the Creeds, Confessions and Catechisms which came about due to this very thing; an attack on the orthodoxy of the Church's doctrine. Even a uneducated layman, if he can read, can discern most error when it appears by consulting these historic documents. Their original purpose was two-fold: 1) to guard against heresy and 2) as a standard of beliefs to which ALL may adhere to as biblical truth for their edification and sanctification. There is also the long history of the Church to which most today thumb their noses at. The argument against looking to our forefathers, who admittedly erred in some things, is that it is too much like Rome. Yet, invariably, the errors made today resemble Rome, e.g., NPP, FV, etc. So, they bring the world into the Church and pride themselves on doing something "new", "inventive", "productive", etc.. aka: pragmatism at the expense of truth.

Finally, there is another factor which would hinder heresy from entering the Church and that is church disipline... another ignored element which is one of the foundational marks of the true Church. (cf. Belgic Confession) For the sake of "tolerance", "academia", "respect", ad nauseam, men are allowed to bring even damnable heresies into the church without much or any resistance whatsoever. But what did Paul teach? If after three attempts to bring a brother (or sister) around to right thinking, Paul said to throw the bum out (loose translation <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />) with the hopes that he/she will see the seriousness of their ways, repent and return to the fold.

Dems my [Linked Image]

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Pilgrim] #37624
Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:49 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
Indeed... I'm not suggesting that education of church officers alone is the answer - just a help.

My recent experience with my PCA church has got me re-thinking the whole church government thing. While I still think that Presbyterianism is the most Biblical form of church government, I wrestle with the way church officers are chosen in, for example, PCA churches like mine.

1. In the Scriptures I find elders appointed by the Apostles and evangelists rather than chosen by "popular vote" from a pool of candidates, and

2. I find no Scriptural justification for giving greater ecclesiastical authority to "teaching elders" (who alone are eligible for appointment to many committees and who alone are authorized to administer the sacraments, etc) than to so-called "ruling elders." Certainly there is Scripture to demonstrate the principle of "first among equals", such as Peter among the Eleven, but none giving one elder authority over the others.

3. Deacons were chosen in at least one instance by consensus from among the people, but I cannot find a single instance of elders being chosen in such a way.

I'm starting to favor an "EpiscoPresbytalian" approach to church government... I'm disgusted with the way the government of my former PCA church failed so badly, and with the wider failure of the PCA to confront and refute the NPP/FV heresies before they gained so much ground and did so much damage in the denomination over a period of several years. Presbyterian government hasn't prevented other Presbyterian denominations from apostasizing. But the way Presbyterianism has been implimented in our Western culture surely demonstrates that the church should revisit it.

Is there such a thing as an EpiscoPresbytalian church anywhere? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" />

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Pilgrim] #37625
Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:24 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Pilgrim,

I think we're saying the very same thing. You ask the question of whether there is a well established Bible College that adheres to the historic Reformed Faith is for me the same saying that we find a Bible College where the presuppositions about Scripture is in line with the presuppositions of historic Reformed Faith. And then of course, it makes sense to have elders trained at such a college. Agree whole heartedly! And with your remarks about the Creeds and Confessions of Faith.

Johan

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37626
Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:38 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Robin,

Quote

1. In the Scriptures I find elders appointed by the Apostles and evangelists rather than chosen by "popular vote" from a pool of candidates,


I made the same remark on Saturday at our elders' meeting.

Quote

2. I find no Scriptural justification for giving greater ecclesiastical authority to "teaching elders" (who alone are eligible for appointment to many committees and who alone are authorized to administer the sacraments, etc) than to so-called "ruling elders." Certainly there is Scripture to demonstrate the principle of "first among equals", such as Peter among the Eleven, but none giving one elder authority over the others.


In our churches teaching elders (pastors) do not have greater ecclesiastical authority than ruling elders. At least on paper. And here I will agree with you that better training of "normal" (ruling) elders will certainly also help to let it also be the case in practice. If I am not mistaken, at synod level meetings in our churhes there are equal numbers of so-called ruling elders and teaching elders (pastors).

Johan

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37627
Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:30 AM
Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Quote
Robin said:
1. In the Scriptures I find elders appointed by the Apostles and evangelists rather than chosen by "popular vote" from a pool of candidates, . . .

Well, the problem I see here is that there are no more Apostles nor Evangelists (early N.T. type). So, unless you are going to go back to Pente-caustalism and embrace the perpetuity of the Apostleship, who would "appoint" these men? Is it really any better that a bunch of liberal or heretical or worldly "officials" appoint men after their own liking rather than a congregation choosing from among a group of men who have initially met the basic qualifications? Neither alternative can prevent what we all would like to not see happen.

Quote
Robin said:
2. I find no Scriptural justification for giving greater ecclesiastical authority to "teaching elders" (who alone are eligible for appointment to many committees and who alone are authorized to administer the sacraments, etc) than to so-called "ruling elders." Certainly there is Scripture to demonstrate the principle of "first among equals", such as Peter among the Eleven, but none giving one elder authority over the others.

3. Deacons were chosen in at least one instance by consensus from among the people, but I cannot find a single instance of elders being chosen in such a way.

I've already remarked on this subject many times before. I am in full agreement that there is equality among the Eldership but a diversity of gifts. Today, we mainly see churches ruled by a Protestant Pope, i.e., the "PASTOR" before whom everyone must and does bow. [Linked Image] In my experience, this is most typically seen in independent churches but it can also be seen in Presbyterian-type churches as well. There is this "I got the degree, so I'm the boss" mentality. But the truth is, I've known men who have had no formal training
but who have a far superior knowledge of the Bible and theology than the seminary-trained Pastor.

Quote
Robin asks:
Is there such a thing as an EpiscoPresbytalian church anywhere?

[Linked Image] but I've been a Presbygationalist for years. [Linked Image]

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Pilgrim] #37628
Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:54 AM
Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline OP
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
I'll take that. I wonder where I might find a Presbygationist church...

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Johan] #37629
Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:48 PM
Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 251
New York
Joe k Offline
Enthusiast
Joe k  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 251
New York
Quote
Johan said:

At the moment then my view is that unless elder training is strictly done within some well defined doctrinal boundaries there will always be tension and I am not sure whether that is good for the congregation. I think I have in an earlier post also mentioned that there are elders who are Purpose Driven fans and one who have no problem with Robert Schuler and many of the TBN preachers.

There is still a lot more that can be said but I'd rather leave it at this point hear what others have to say.

Johan


One of the issues that I have personally noticed within the church I worship at is it becomes basically a popularity contest. Very little theological discourse takes place in the consistory meeting. The concentration is on admin busisness and the property itself. As an aside, when the property committe has a larger budget than any other function of the local assembly, there is a big problem.

That being said, Elders should be recognized for their gift of being a Holy Spirit determined Elder. Then confirmed by the congregation. Not an election.


There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Robin] #37630
Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:53 PM
Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
Johan Offline

Enthusiast
Johan  Offline

Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 319
South Africa
This thread has sort of come to a halt but it still is an important issue.

What do you see as the tasks of the elders?

Johan

Re: How are Elders Trained? [Re: Johan] #37631
Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:09 PM
Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,410
NH, USA
Quote
Johan said:
What do you see as the tasks of the elders?

Well, from what I have been able to glean from reading "stuff" on the Internet, some of the primary tasks of Elders are:

1. Making sure there enough greeters at the door and they smile widely.
2. Making sure that there are enough doggie biscuits on the communion table.
3. Making sure that there are just enough colorful balloons and banners hung up in the room.
4. Making sure the band has enough electrical outlets for their equipment and the mics are all working.
5. Making sure that they appear inconspicuous and blend in with the crowd, e.g., as equals.

I think those are some of the areas where I was most impressed. evilgrin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 17 guests, and 121 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dutch Michael, Ray, robertolang, SmallFry, drewk
925 Registered Users
Shout Box
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
735,069 Gospel truth
Page Time: 0.067s Queries: 16 (0.013s) Memory: 2.9998 MB (Peak: 3.3105 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-19 13:33:42 UTC