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AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics #38048
Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:18 AM
Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,758
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline OP

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John_C  Offline OP

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First, I should ask this. Are Pentacostals and Charismatics synonymous? I assume there must be some difference because of the different names, but are they big in nature?

I get the impression that many in the AOG are mostly orthodox in their doctrines which separates them from the others (P & C). The reason why thinking that is that many years ago I listened often to a Dr Bronson (I believe) on Sunday mornings while getting ready for church. I could find very little to disagree with him and he seemed very reasonable in his sermons. i enjoyed listening to him. I think he preached the national sermon for the AOG at the time from its Springfield HQs. I know there are those like Swaggert in the AOG, but are there factions within the AOG that are at odds with one another?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: John_C] #38049
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:06 AM
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:06 AM
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Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
The Assemblies of God is a Pentecostal denomination. One of several Pentecostal denominations (Church of God, Salvation Army, Church of God in Christ, Church of God of Prophecy, several more). All of them have roots in the "holiness" movement, and in Azusa Street "revivals" that were condemned by just about every other denomination that existed at the time.

One of the distinctions of the Assemblies of God is that they believe that speaking in tongues is the "initial evidence" of Holy Spirit baptism, which they distinguish completely from Holy Spirit indwelling.

The Charismatics, on the other hand, are people in and from non-Pentecostal denominations who believe in Pentecostalism. They can be found in just about every denomination and even many non-Christian sects that claim to be Christian (Roman Catholicism and Mormonism for example). Their beliefs on Holy Spirit baptism and the charismata (gifts of the Spirit) vary widely among Charismatics. The great majority of independent (non-denominational) Charismatic churches are basically Pentecostals who want to avoid denominational affiliation. There are loosely-knit Charismatic denominations (they won't call themselves denominations, but that is what they are) like Calvary Chapels and Vinyard Churches.

-R

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: John_C] #38050
Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:58 PM
Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian

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Virginia
John,

Pentecostals and Charismatics differ mostly over whether speaking in tongues necessarily accompanies the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both groups believe that Holy Spirit baptism is a "second grace" subsequent to conversion, but Pentecostals believe that speaking in tongues always accompanies Holy Spirit baptism, whereas Charismatics do not typically hold this view. Pentecostals, much more than Charismatics, will divide tongues into 2 or 3 categories: 1) Holy Spirit baptism tongues, 2) personal prayer languages, and 3) prophetic tongues which are known human languages.

A couple of other things tend to distinguish Pentecostals from Charismatics. Pentecostals usually have a more "traditional" camp-revival syle of worship, although this is fast disappearing; and they have typically placed much more emphasis on refraining from cultural vices, like smoking, consuming alcohol, dancing, movies, etc. Also, as Robin points out, Pentecostals usually have their own denominations, where Charismatics can be members in just about any denomination (Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc.) or else participate in loose associations or are completely independent. The Assemblies of God are officially Pentecostal but there is a lot of influence from Charismatics and probably a good number of A/G churches are more Charismatic than they are Pentecostal. I was raised in the A/G but I'm not aware of any factions as such within the denomination.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: Robin] #38051
Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:28 PM
Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,454
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Robin

Are you sure about the Salvation Army being Pentecostal?
The first Church I ever attended was the Salvation Army over 29 years now. It was far from a Pentecostal Church and though I did run into a few Charismatic officers in the denomination, they were very rare. In fact it was looked down upon.
Back then, I would call their worship more in line with liturgical, but I understand that in many Salvation Army local Churches today, contemporary worship is the practice.

Thanks
Tom

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: Tom] #38052
Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:24 PM
Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
CovenantInBlood  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Tom,

I'm not sure myself whether Salvation Army is Pentecostal, although I know they are definitely from the Holiness movement.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: CovenantInBlood] #38053
Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:01 PM
Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:01 PM
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Posts: 983
Florida
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Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
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Florida
Ditto, above. A google search tells more about its roots and its doctrine.

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: John_C] #38054
Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:46 AM
Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,454
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
From what I gather from the limited reading I did, by my Google search. The Holiness movement has its roots in Methodism with John and Charles Wesley. Pentecostalism is just one of the movements that sprung from it.

Tom

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: Tom] #38055
Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:13 AM
Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,758
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline OP

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John_C  Offline OP

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Mississippi Gulf Coast
Just wondering - Wesley or Keswick. Or did Keswick come out of Wesleyism. Would the Nazarenes (or is it Nazarines) be conisdered charasmatics? I know they are holiness.

Still in thinking back upon it, I was impressed with the teaching of Dr Bronson on Sunday morning radio broadcasts. He was definitely not what we hear today.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: John_C] #38056
Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:05 PM
Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,454
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,454
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Have a look at this link .
I would not concider the Nazarenes Charismatic.

Tom

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: Tom] #38057
Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:42 AM
Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
The Boy Wonder
Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
Yet in a way they can be considered at least "Charismatic friendly" because of their position (and writings) on what they call "second blessing" - Spirit baptism subsequent to conversion and indwelling of the Spirit.

Re: AOG and the Pentacostals / Charismatics [Re: John_C] #38058
Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:37 AM
Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Missouri, USA
deacon jim Offline
Plebeian
deacon jim  Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Missouri, USA
The term "Charismatic" as I understand it, refers to a movement, not a denomination. It is a broadly defined term that refers to people who believe that the charismtic gifts are still extant, that is, speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophecy. They also tend to get into strangeness like "slain in the Spirit" or "spiritual laughter" etc.<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/excitedgrn.gif" alt="" /> Charismatics tend to be more about emotions, feelings and outward manifestations that other Christians. The Charismatic movement cuts acress many denominations, and there is even a Charismatic movement within Roman Catholicism I am told. But AOG and Pentecostals tend to be Charismatic.

The "name it and claim it" or Word of Faith movement (Hinn, Copeland, Meyers, Osteen, et al.) that has done much harm to the church (in my opinion) was spawned by the Charismatic movement, including the AOG. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

As for the orthodoxy of the AOG, it depends on how you measure orthodoxy. The AOG is full-fledged Arminian, even holding to the most odious of Arminian tenets, that a Christain can lose their salvation.


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