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Re: Old Testament Law #3828
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:16 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:16 PM
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Posts: 13,511
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Pilgrim Offline

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]If God is forcing one to do something, which the text of that verse indicates, one could say God is doing it. God's will cannot be resisted.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Where does it say that anyone is forced? God forces no one to do anything contrary to their will. Isn't this ironic, though? Here you are a semi-Pelagian, at best, using a distorted and unbiblical teaching of God's sovereignty, which you categorically deny against me, a Calvinist who thoroughly believes and lives by the biblical doctrine of God and His immutable sovereignty. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img] The fact that God regenerates a sinner does not mean that that individual is forced. In fact, regeneration frees a sinner to do that which he once refused to do..... in fact, he had no ability to do. But after regeneration, an individual believes on Christ and conforms himself to the moral law just as naturally and willingly as he once hated Christ and willing transgressed all the moral law of God. (cf. Eph 2:1-10)<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]You highlighted the wrong part of the text. "It is no longer I that live" is the pertinent part. How can one who has died do anything?</font><hr></blockquote><p>Huh? Not too long ago, when we were discussing Romans 7, and it was pointed out to you that when Paul said that, "when the law came I died . . .", you vehemently wrote that this text did NOT refer to Paul, but to some unknown individual who lived before the time of Moses and the giving of the Ten Commandments? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img] One dies to the "old man" and puts on the "new man". It is a spiritual phenomena that this "dying" is referring to; i.e., a sinner who has been given new life in Christ by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit dies to self and all that the natural man desires. But he becomes alive to God and thus desires and does that which is pleasing to Him. These things belong to "Bible 101"!<blockquote>Hebrews 5:11-14 (ASV) "Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing. For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food. For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. But solid food is for fullgrown men, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil."</blockquote>In His Grace,


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Re: Old Testament Law #3829
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:19 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:19 PM
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Posts: 13,511
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Pilgrim Offline

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I will not be replying to any more of your posts, because you are questioning my salvation.</font><hr></blockquote><p>And he did so because the Holy Spirit revealed this to him and forced him to write what he did! You can't have it both ways, Alex. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: Old Testament Law [Re: Pilgrim] #3830
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:35 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:35 PM

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Glad to see you having such a rip-roaring good time tonight. We need more laughs in this world, that's for sure.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>Where does it say that anyone is forced? <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>"I will cause you to walk in my statutes."<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br> Not too long ago, when we were discussing Romans 7, and it was pointed out to you that when Paul said that, "when the law came I died . . .", you vehemently wrote that this text did NOT refer to Paul, but to some unknown individual who lived before the time of Moses and the giving of the Ten Commandments? <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>That would be all righteous men and woman who lived under the law. Not some unknown individual.<br><br>We know from 2 Cor 3 that the time of the law was the dispensation of death. No doubt, that's what Paul was referring to also in Romans 7:9. That is a death unique to the old covenant. The death spoken about in Gal 2:20 and Col 3:3 is a death unique to the new covenant.<br><br>Alex<br>

Re: Old Testament Law [Re: Pilgrim] #3831
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:44 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:44 PM

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>And he did so because the Holy Spirit revealed this to him and forced him to write what he did! You can't have it both ways<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>As I alluded to in another post tonight, when two believers who disagree both claim to have Divine revelation on a subject, it is best to end the discussion.<br><br>As a new and immature believer many years ago (I experienced the new birth on February 20, 1978), I would ask my Pastor from time to time if a certain person was saved. He showed great wisdom, I believe, in his responses. He would either say, "He says he is." or "Yes." I've tried to remember that --- I would never want to be found questioning the salvation of God's anointed.<br><br>Alex<br>

Re: Old Testament Law #3832
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:50 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,511
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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In reply to my question as to where it is said in Ezekiel 36:27, where is showed you that it said that the INDIVIDUAL would do that which was required, you replied,<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]"I will cause you to walk in my statutes."</font><hr></blockquote><p>Again, where does the text say that a man will be <span style="background-color:yellow;">FORCED</span> to do something? There is no dispute that it is God Who creates the ability for a man to believe and walk in God's statutes; i.e., He, God is the proximate "cause". But nowhere is it said that God <span style="background-color:yellow;">forces</span> a man to do anything. To "force" someone is to make them do something which they choose not to do. No one nor even God can make anyone do anything that is against their will. To use a relevant and salient illustration from the late Dr. John Gertsner, "If a man put a gun to my head and said, 'Stop writing or I'll shoot you!'! This only creates a situation where I have two choices given to me. I can either stop writing or go on writing and stop living. But the man with the gun simply CANNOT force me to do that which is against my will. It's my choice and I am totally free to make that choice."<br><br>God recreates the soul, which is called, "regeneration, making alive, born again, new life, new creation, resurrection, et al", which gives man the ability to make choices where beforehand he was unable to make because of his corrupt nature. A corrupt tree ONLY bears corrupt fruit. You can no more make an evil man do that which is good any more than you can force a good man to do evil or good. All that a man does is done freely and by choice. There is no truth to, "The Devil made me do it!". Nor is there any smattering of truth to, "God made me do it!"<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: Old Testament Law #3833
Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:05 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:05 PM
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Posts: 13,511
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Pilgrim Offline

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Again...... [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ohno.gif" alt="ohno" title="ohno[/img] ........ YOU are the ONLY one who is claiming "Divine Revelation". Are you in the same league as the Apostle Paul who received his theological training from Jesus Christ and who was guided by the Holy Spirit to write that which was by direct revelation from the Lord, infallible and inerrant as to every jot and tittle?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I would never want to be found questioning the salvation of God's anointed.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Has it ever occurred to you that this may be nothing more than presumption on your part?<blockquote>Matthew 7:21-27 (ASV) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and if fell not: for it was founded upon the rock. And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof."</blockquote>You also wrote that when two people who profess to be believers disagree on doctrine, even essential doctrines of the faith, that this is where "the agape of God kicks in". That's rather novel for I read in God's inspired, infallible and inerrant Word this:<blockquote>1 Corinthians 11:19 (KJV) "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."<br><br>Titus 3:10 (KJV) "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"<br><br>Romans 16:17-18 (KJV) "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."<br><br>Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV) "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."<br><br>2 Thessalonians 3:6 (KJV) "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."<br><br>2 John 1:10-11 (KJV) "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."</blockquote>Tell me again, who is this "spirit" that has been speaking to you contrary to the recorded words of God the Holy Spirit?<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: Old Testament Law #3834
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:12 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:12 PM

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]As I alluded to in another post tonight, when two believers who disagree both claim to have Divine revelation on a subject, it is best to end the discussion.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Could I get some scripture teaching this, or is it revelational?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I would never want to be found questioning the salvation of God's anointed.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>I, personally, am not questioning your salvific relationship with God. However, I am asking you how we keep heresy out of the church when we got this problem of differing revelations? How do we decide......which is more.......ummm.......more inspired? See the problem yet?<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

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