Donations for the month of December


We have received a total of $20 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 3,316
Joined: April 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,544
Posts50,743
Members921
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,307
Tom 3,316
chestnutmare 2,864
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,748
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,057
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 24
Pilgrim 18
Recent Posts
Christian Leaders Behaving Badly
by Anthony C.. Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:56 PM
Sexual harrassment fraud
by PerpetualLearner. Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:01 AM
Israel
by Pilgrim. Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:21 AM
Classical vs.Presuppositional Apologetics
by Pilgrim. Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:45 AM
Trying to understand the Confessions
by Tom. Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:29 PM
Question I read
by Tom. Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:04 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#38521 - Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:51 PM Drinking and drunkeness  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
Clint Offline
Journeyman
Clint  Offline
Journeyman

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
Az, USA,
Does the Bible say anywhere that drinking wine or beer or anything of the nature in and of itself is a sin? Or only that being drunk and living a life bonded to drunkenness a sin?

A few people I know will take part in total abstinence from drinking because their view is this, "why would I drink something out of leisure that does nothing but hinder my walk and ability to think" which is fair enough in itself.. But they also scoff at those who do drink.

I just want to ask this one guy in particular.. "Why do you watch family guy on tv? Isn't family guy a TV show that makes fun of God and His commands and yet you still watch?" But I was not sure if my argument against his really held water because I was not sure what exactly the Bible says about drinking..

#38522 - Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:34 PM Re: Drinking and drunkeness [Re: Clint]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,748
John_C Offline
Permanent Resident
John_C  Offline

Permanent Resident

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,748
Mississippi Gulf Coast
Obviously, the Bible does not consider alcohol a sin. Just drunkeness.

As a teetotaler I always wanted to ask this question. Doesn't everyone sin a few times by drunkenesss before they learn to be sober social drinkers. IOW, in order to learn not to sin, you have to sin a few times before getting to that point. In addition, what is drunkeness? Is it a slight buzz or feeling gidy, or is it more?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
#38523 - Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:02 PM Re: Drinking and drunkeness [Re: John_C]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 360
Theo Offline
Old Hand
Theo  Offline
Old Hand

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 360
Clint,

The main reason I wound up concluding, after being raised as a teetotaler, that alcoholic beverages in and of themselves are not sinful is that we know our Lord never sinned, yet he turned water into wine at Cana and drank wine at the Last Supper. If he never sinned, those could not have been sinful acts. I agree with John C that DRUNKENESS is what is sinful.

And in the Old Testament, well, Psalm 104 thanks God for wine:

14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.


So I honestly don't see how wine or other alcoholic drink could be sinful in and of itself. ( I realize some argue that the wine of Biblical times was not the same as what we call wine, but I don't think that is a very convincing argument, for why else would the Scriptures warn against drunkeness?)

Theo

#38524 - Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:27 PM Re: Drinking and drunkeness [Re: John_C]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,578
MarieP Offline
Permanent Resident
MarieP  Offline
Permanent Resident

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,578
Kentucky
Quote
As a teetotaler I always wanted to ask this question. Doesn't everyone sin a few times by drunkenesss before they learn to be sober social drinkers. IOW, in order to learn not to sin, you have to sin a few times before getting to that point. In addition, what is drunkeness? Is it a slight buzz or feeling gidy, or is it more?


That actually was my question several years ago. (I may have even asked it here, come to think of it). But personally, the answer is no, especially since I only drink one glass of wine and that with food. As to the question of "giddiness" I really can't say I've had that experience. More relaxed yes, but can't say I've felt giddy.

Just my two cents...


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#38525 - Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:41 AM Re: Drinking and drunkeness [Re: Theo]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
Clint Offline
Journeyman
Clint  Offline
Journeyman

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
Az, USA,
Thank you very much John, Marie, and Theo. This helps quite a bit. You just affirmed what I had already concluded.. However I was unsure of myself because I have been raised in a home that is less reserved than most.. and because of that I thought maybe I just had a little bit of a skewed view.. Anyways, thanks again!

#38526 - Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:45 AM Re: Drinking and drunkenness [Re: Clint]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,307
Pilgrim Offline
Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,307
NH, USA
Clint,

Consider the following:


1 Timothy 5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." (If drinking wine (alcohol) is sin, then Paul just counseled Timothy to sin and that as a young pastor.)

Titus 1:7 "For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;" (here the optimum phrase is "not given to", i.e., addicted to drinking wine (alcohol). cf. Eph 5:18; 1Tim 3:3, 8; Titus 2:3


In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 16 guests, and 107 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
drewk, patrice, Robert1962, Ron, billmcginnis
921 Registered Users
Shout Box
December
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
663,082 Gospel truth
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.041s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 2.5838 MB (Peak: 2.8544 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-11 07:21:06 UTC