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Alex_Light #4024
Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:14 PM
Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:14 PM

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Here, <br><br>http://www.the-highway.com/cgi-bin/...d&sb=5&o=&fpart=<br><br>You said;<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The revelation has come to you. The revelation of Jesus Christ.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>How did this revelation come to you?<br><br>Here,<br><br>http://www.the-highway.com/cgi-bin/...psed&sb=5&vc=1#Post23059<br><br>You said;<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]So the only thing a believer can do is maintain an attitude of belief. If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in. That eliminates the oft-used practice of insulting, demeaning, etc.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>How would I test the truthfulness of this statement?<br><br>Here,<br><br>http://www.the-highway.com/cgi-bin/...psed&sb=5&vc=1#Post23149<br><br>You said;<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]So let me try this. There is no way that "we" can decide, because we disagree. That is not a dilemma, nor does it challenge my belief system. If anything, it gives both of us the opportunity to express the agape of God. (I believe that was my answer the first time you asked me.)</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>could you explain how we are to find truth when we cannot KNOW truth?<br><br>You also said;<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]By the way, are you familiar with Paul's teaching about insisting? If not, see 1 Cor 13:5.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>(KJV)<br>1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, <br>1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; <br>1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; <br>1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. <br><br>Just as I figured. Context kills your assertion again. I rejoice in truth; something you claim we cannot know. I seek not my own, but the advancement of my Lord and Gods Kingdom, where no error is taught.<br><br>I have some other questions if you wouldn't mind answering them;<br><br>1) Is there objective truth?<br><br>2) If yes, how do we find it?<br><br>3) Is Gods Word infallible and complete?<br><br>4) How do you KNOW your revelation is more truthful than mine?<br><br>Thank you.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

Re: Alex_Light #4025
Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:34 AM
Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:34 AM

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Here,<br><br>http://www.the-highway.com/cgi-bin/...psed&sb=5&vc=1#Post23059<br><br>You said;<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]In the first century, one could go before the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, and obtain a ruling.<br><br>I know of no similiar body one can go to in this day and age. <br><br>So the only thing a believer can do is maintain an attitude of belief. If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in. That eliminates the oft-used practice of insulting, demeaning, etc.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Were the Apostles and elders greater than Holy Writ? If so, why would they write this;<br><br>(KJV)<br>2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. <br>2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. <br>2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. <br><br>Since we can't know true vanity, you bypass this for your personal interpretation of your claimed personal revelation. And study what? Have you ever read this passage?<br><br>(KJV)<br>2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: <br>2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. <br>2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. <br><br>Is your prophecy private concerning these other "inspired" texts? If not, it must be tried by the infallible rule for faith, the Bible. How do I know this?<br><br>(KJV)<br>1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; <br>1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: <br>1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. <br><br>Now, could you give your defense, please?<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william<br><br><br>

William #4026
Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:13 AM
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>> The revelation has come to you. The revelation of Jesus Christ.<br><br>> How did this revelation come to you?<br><br>Me personally? When I was reading a book called "The Late Great Planet Earth".<br><br><br>>> So the only thing a believer can do is maintain an attitude of belief. If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in. That eliminates the oft-used practice of insulting, demeaning, etc.<br><br>> How would I test the truthfulness of this statement?<br><br>We test the truthfulness of every statement by the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.<br><br><br>>> There is no way that "we" can decide, because we disagree. That is not a dilemma, nor does it challenge my belief system. If anything, it gives both of us the opportunity to express the agape of God. (I believe that was my answer the first time you asked me.)<br><br>> could you explain how we are to find truth when we cannot KNOW truth?<br><br>I didn't say we cannot KNOW truth. I said "we" (meaning you and I in this instance) cannot decide (come to an agreement) because we disagree.<br><br><br>> 1) Is there objective truth?<br><br>Of course. The Spirit of Truth who resides in each of us who have saving faith in Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, I have much more confidence in Him than I do teams of human translators.<br><br><br>> 2) If yes, how do we find it?<br><br>We depend on Him to guide us into all the truth.<br><br><br>> 3) Is Gods Word infallible and complete?<br><br>When you say God's Word, are you referring to "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." or are you referring to the Bible? Or in your view is Jesus Christ the Bible and the Bible is Jesus Christ? I do not believe that the Bible is Jesus Christ.<br><br><br>> 4) How do you KNOW your revelation is more truthful than mine?<br><br>To me, it's not a matter of comparing myself to another. It's a matter of knowing when God has spoken within and believing it no matter what. So if another makes a statement that I know to be incorrect, I reject it.<br><br>I don't play the "my revelation is more truthful than yours" game. That's akin to saying, "My dad can beat up your dad." Comparing oneself to another is unprofitable, especially when it pertains to spiritual matters.<br><br><br>William, if the past is any indication, this reply will be the springboard for a new round of personal attacks, insults, and boorish behavior. (That comment is not directed at you.) So to prevent further upset, I am leaving the discussion board effective immediately. <br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Alex<br>

Re: William #4027
Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:30 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Me personally? When I was reading a book called "The Late Great Planet Earth".</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>And Joseph Smiths came while praying. How do we know yours is true, since they differ so greatly? Is Jesus still providing scripture today?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]We test the truthfulness of every statement by the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>My witness says you are heretical and you need to do three hail marys. Which is true?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I didn't say we cannot KNOW truth. I said "we" (meaning you and I in this instance) cannot decide (come to an agreement) because we disagree.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>If we can KNOW truth, we can test our claims. What shall we use as our objective standard?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Of course. The Spirit of Truth who resides in each of us who have saving faith in Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, I have much more confidence in Him than I do teams of human translators.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>So did Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, Benny Hinn, Sister Ellen White, and every other cultist. Got anything more objective?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]We depend on Him to guide us into all the truth.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>How? Does the spirit tell two different people two different things, yet they are both true? The spirit tells me you are heretical, am I wrong? If you say yes, you deny my revelational truth, yet without anything else except your own revelational truth. We get nowhere without the Bible.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]When you say God's Word, are you referring to "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." or are you referring to the Bible? Or in your view is Jesus Christ the Bible and the Bible is Jesus Christ? I do not believe that the Bible is Jesus Christ.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Aaah. Herein lies the dilemma. You must think God left us without an infallible guide (excepting personal revelation), and each individual is held accountable by his own revelation. That's outside orthodoxy and no Christian believes this. You refer to nothing besides yourself, yet Jesus gave us a decidedly different example. By the way, that answer was irrelevant.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]To me, it's not a matter of comparing myself to another. It's a matter of knowing when God has spoken within and believing it no matter what. So if another makes a statement that I know to be incorrect, I reject it.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Again, you are your own point of reference. My reference is the revealed word of God. And this is exactly my point.......I know you to be heretical and I reject you.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I don't play the "my revelation is more truthful than yours" game. That's akin to saying, "My dad can beat up your dad." Comparing oneself to another is unprofitable, especially when it pertains to spiritual matters.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Whoa. Scripture tells us to do exactly what you decry as wrong. <br><br>(KJV)<br>1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. <br><br>I am testing your spirit and revelation against the immutable, infallible revelation of God. It isn't about "whose revelation is better", but whose is truthful, something you refuse to provide a testing ground for. I refuse to follow your revelation blindly.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]William, if the past is any indication, this reply will be the springboard for a new round of personal attacks, insults, and boorish behavior. (That comment is not directed at you.) So to prevent further upset, I am leaving the discussion board effective immediately.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Go figure. I asked you elsewhere to prove you were ever insulted, but you can't do that either. Hit and run sounds proper for those who cannot uphold their beliefs. However, if calling one a heretic is wrong, Jesus sinned. Yet, I doubt that truth will have any effect upon you. Before you leave, please read the Church fathers and the Westminster Catechism and the 39 Articles of Religion as well for a dose of good truths. Also do a search on charismatic on this site for an understanding of why modern revelations are wrong.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william<br><br><br>P.S.------->I find it interesting you never interacted with the scriptures I provided and showed why they were wrong.......especially since you have divine inspiration to do so.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

Re: William #4028
Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:53 AM
Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:53 AM

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The revelation of Jesus Christ came to you whilst reading Hal Lindsays book ?<br><br>This Christ is no Christ - just another false christ with another false gospel !<br><br>howard

Re: William #4029
Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:51 AM
Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:51 AM
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Howard<br><br>This is not to defend William in the slightest bit. However, though I disagree with Hal Lindsay’s theology, I do however have some friends that were attracted to the Gospel through Hal Lindsay's book ' The Late Great Planet Earth'.<br>However, I will say that it was in spite of it, not because of it.<br>

Re: William [Re: Tom] #4030
Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:48 PM
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Tom,<br><br>What exactly is your point? [Linked Image]<br><br>


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Re: William [Re: Tom] #4031
Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:32 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]This is not to defend William in the slightest bit. However, though I disagree with Hal Lindsay’s theology, I do however have some friends that were attracted to the Gospel through Hal Lindsay's book ' The Late Great Planet Earth'.<br>However, I will say that it was in spite of it, not because of it.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Tom,<br><br>Rather than "William" in the quote above, don't you mean "Alex"? Just checking--<br><br>Theo

Re: William #4032
Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:49 AM
Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:49 AM
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Alex,<br><br>When people claim to get their "Special revelation", this is what usually occurs:<br>http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0714/1580339.html<br><br>Here's an excerpt :<br><blockquote><br>DALLAS -- A judge listened to testimony Monday and is expected to rule soon whether former Dallas Cowboy Deion Sanders owes money to a body shop for work done on his vintage 1961 Lincoln Continental convertible.<br><br><br>State District Judge Joe Cox took the case under advisement after the one-day trial, said court administrator Donna Bouthton.<br><br><br>The owner of the repair shop said Sanders wanted to pay only $1,500 of the $4,265.57 bill, saying that Jesus had informed him that was all he needed to pay.<br><br><br>"It's the 'Praise Jesus' discount,'' attorney Ed Edson told The Dallas Morning News in Monday's editions.<br></blockquote><br><br>That is just mockery of Christ. <br>THE ONLY REVELATION is FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURES!!!<br><br>Carlos


"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
Re: William [Re: Theo] #4033
Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:54 PM
Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:54 PM
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Theo<br>[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/blush.gif" alt="blush" title="blush[/img] oops, you are correct I should have written Alex.<br><br>Tom

Re: William [Re: Pilgrim] #4034
Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:11 PM
Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:11 PM
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Pilgrim<br><br>I was responding to Howard's comments, they seemed to me to be saying that (perhap I was reading too much into his comments) that if Alex was attracted to Christ through Hal Lindsay, he couldn't know the true Christ.<br>I have no idea if Alex is a Christian (I have an oppinion), but as I said Hal Lindsay's book has been used before...

Re: William [Re: Tom] #4035
Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:14 PM
Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:14 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]. . . if Alex was attracted to Christ through Hal Lindsay, he couldn't know the true Christ.</font><hr></blockquote><p>In your opinion, what do you think is the likelihood is that a person could be exposed to the biblical Christ through a book like The Late Great Planet Earth and be genuinely converted (humanly speaking, of course)? As a point of interest and reference, Billy Graham has stated that perhaps 4% to 10% of all those who "come forward" are genuinely converted. Given his theology of salvation, one could even say that he is overstating the data, eh?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]but as I said Hal Lindsay's book has been used before...</font><hr></blockquote><p>So, are you saying here, that because, in your experience/opinion, some have been genuinely converted due to a reading of The Late Great Planet Earth, then we should encourage people to read it for the purpose of being exposed to the biblical gospel? Or, are you perhaps suggesting that if God has allegedly called someone to Christ through the means of such a book, then we shouldn't totally reject it as a viable means by which men may be saved? Or...... ??<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: William [Re: Pilgrim] #4036
Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:13 AM
Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:13 AM
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Pilgrim<br><br>Actually, I never said they were converted to Christ by reading one of Hal Lindsay's books. I meant that God used 'The Late Great Planet Earth' to get a friend of mine interested in finding out what the Scripture's said. <br><br>I would not encourage anyone to read any book written by Hal Lindsay, though I believe there are genuine Christians that had their interests in Christianity started by such books. I also know from experience some of the bad theology I had to unlearn over the years. That was truly a hard thing to go through, though I realize even that was in God's plans. <br><br>Tom<br>

Re: William [Re: Tom] #4037
Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:38 AM
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Tom,<br><br>I think you have succeeded in confusing me once again! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] Your initial concern was that Howard had, in your estimation, possibly dismissed Alex's alleged conversion as genuine due to his "coming to know Christ from reading Hal Lindsay's book, The Late Great Planet Earth". At least that is what appeared to be your concern when you wrote:<blockquote>However, though I disagree with Hal Lindsay’s theology, I do however have some friends that were attracted to the Gospel through Hal Lindsay's book . . .</blockquote>and again you wrote by way of clarification:<blockquote>I was responding to Howard's comments, they seemed to me to be saying that (perhap I was reading too much into his comments) that if Alex was attracted to Christ through Hal Lindsay, he couldn't know the true Christ.</blockquote>Your concern was established upon your "experience", in that you have some friend(s) who you said in reply to one of my questions,<blockquote>Actually, I never said they were converted to Christ by reading one of Hal Lindsay's books. I meant that God used 'The Late Great Planet Earth' to get a friend of mine interested in finding out what the Scripture's said.</blockquote>This is where I am [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused[/img] . . . If you were objecting to Howard's suggestion that if Alex was allegedly converted through the instrumentality of reading The Late Great Planet Earth, it was a spurious conversion, then would it not make more sense to have offered one or more examples of "friend(s)" who are known to have been converted (as much as we are able to know) i.e., there is absolutely little doubt that they are truly regenerate and believing/living for and in Christ? This would have then given a reason for Howard to be more careful about making summary judgments about the genuineness of a person's alleged conversion than what you actually offered. The "fact" that you have/had a friend who read Hal Lindsay's book and you believe God used, "to get a friend of mine interested in finding out what the Scripture's said." is a far cry from being attracted to Christ, never mind believing upon Christ unto salvation.<br><br>And Tom...... gee whiz, you didn't answer any of my other questions. [Linked Image]<br><br>In His Grace,


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