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#41397 - Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:29 PM BootsorGaloshes?  
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19So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid


I ve always believed God uses this to make fools of the (wordly) wise. Certainly there is more to it.

What is the point?


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41449 - Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:52 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Jesus Walks on the Water
22 Immediately He made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of Him to the other side, while He sent the crowds away.23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone.24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary.25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea.26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear.27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid."
28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!"31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and *said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?"32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"
Matt. 14:22-33


Hitch here is the same occurrence in Matthew. Christ here is revealing to the disciples that he is the Son of God by doing this miracle(sign).


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#41450 - Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:48 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Peter]  
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Well certainly that is part it.

I reckon there's a deeper ( heh heh) meaning. These guys had already seen miracles not that there could be too many.

Something that stands out is the general uselessnes of this particular action. Jesus could have waited till the next day, taken another boat, or walked by unseen. There is a seeming arbitrariness here , no one is directly benefitted from the supernatural act. With out searching I'll say this is unique.
Making me all the more curious.

Another thing I noticed, embarrassing as it is having heard this story my entire life , unless Im mistaken the KJV never says Jesus was walking on the water, but rather on the sea. Coud be the Greek terms are interchangable I dont know.

And making his perfect three point crecendow,,, This miracle comes in four parts. Jesus walks on the sea, Pete joins him, Jesus calms the storm, the boat and crew are 'teleported' to their destination. The rarest of miracles outside the subject itself.

Wierd eh?

H

Last edited by Hitch; Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:56 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41451 - Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:01 AM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Hitch,

To take Boanerges' response a step further. I am always in awe of the sequence that Matthew sets out in all of chapter 14. Jesus' meeting his disciples on the troubled lake comes not only after the miraculous feeding, but in the context of Jesus--and certainly his disciples--having just learned of John's death.

Jesus clearly seeks time alone with His Father, but is prevented from being alone by the crowds; He responds in compassion, healing and feeding. When they have been cared for, He yearns solitude again with His Father, and sends the disciples away by boat so He can pray. Who can know what transpired in those long hours? How was He strengthened in preparation for this new phase of His ministry, with John's work finished? All we know is that when the fourth watch came, He knew that His disciples needed Him urgently, and He went straight to them.

The Lord never performed a miracle for His own convenience; He had every right, but it would have made Him a High Priest unable to sympathize with our weakness. Here he goes into the teeth of wind, trodding down the breakers, straight to His disciples, for their sake, for the revelation of His power, for the strengthening of their faith. I can imagine, given their unquenchable association of the coming Kingdom with the concept of a throne in Jerusalem, that they were dismayed at the loss of John and its negative political implications, just as Jesus seemed to be gaining in renown around the lake. But now He has sent them away and they can't even get the boat to make much headway.

And then, as He always comes to us in our own darkness, unasked, unsought, the Lord Christ walks up to the boat--to save, to comfort, to correct--and to receive their worship.


In Christ,
Paul S
#41452 - Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 AM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Paul_S]  
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All true Paul and immensely glorious for the few who witnessed it.

The Lord never performed a miracle for His own convenience;

Yup. And that makes the basic questions, why the sea? why the storm ? Why walk part way and teleport the last bit? (sorry cant think of a better term) all the more interesting.

Thanx for the responses gents,

H


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41463 - Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:06 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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I believe the last sentence in the passage offers at least one primary reason: Those in the boat worshiped Him saying, "You are surely God's Son!" That was at least one recorded result of His actions, and it is more than enough to justify it. Not for His "convenience" or because He wanted His ego stroked by the disciples, but to remove all doubt of who He was and is. For their sakes.

#41467 - Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:30 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Robin]  
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As with the other responses your idea is certaily possible and likely part of the whole. Still I reckon the uniqueness of this set of miraculous events coupled with the unusual setting lean toward the notion that more is involved. I dont know what that is. However Im certain this didnt happen only or even mostly for their benefits because it easily could have fit into that large collection of our Lord's wunderful works that were not recorded.
'
Sometimes a 'cigar is just a cigar' and that may be the case here, I obviously dont think so.

H



Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41468 - Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:31 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Hitch,

Wow, you're not giving up, are you? hairout wink

Let's try this. Have you factored in the additional details surrounding this event--context, man, context!--found in the John 6 account? Because I have, and it adds significantly to the big picture. More later, D.v.


In Christ,
Paul S
#41470 - Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:06 AM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Paul_S]  
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Originally Posted by Paul_S
Hitch,

Wow, you're not giving up, are you? hairout wink

Let's try this. Have you factored in the additional details surrounding this event--context, man, context!--found in the John 6 account? Because I have, and it adds significantly to the big picture. More later, D.v.
Finally ---- So what is it?



Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41472 - Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:13 AM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Hitch,

Here's what I'm seeing from the combined context of the Matthew 14 and John 6 accounts.

Not just the nature, but the timing of this series of miracles is unique in the Lord's ministry. His popularity around Galilee had grown to the point where large crowds were moving from town to town in search of Him. Now the news comes that John has been killed. Jesus, though clearly intending to be alone with the 12, is moved not only to teach but to feed this crowd. Rather than responding in repentant faith and humble obedience, the people desire to make Jesus king by force. He sends the disciples away by boat, seen by the crowd, and moves uphill to secret himself away with His Father. As always, He must be with His Father, and no other obligation matters until the Father sends Him to the disciples' rescue.

The events of the 2nd day show that it became evident to the crowd, many of whom crossed over to Capernaum by boat, that though unseen by them, Jesus had supernaturally crossed the lake ahead of them, slipping, as Calvin calls it, their "blockade" of both men along the near shore and boats from Tiberias. So the same miracle which strengthened the faith of the disciples in the boat also became the prelude to stumbling by those who followed merely to have their stomachs refilled.

This is a huge turning point in our Lord's ministry; right on the cusp of being crowned King, with a popular movement of thousands of excited followers, He rebukes their unbelief, their utter disregard of His excellent person, and by the end of the day no one is left but the 12. I must believe that their own desperate perseverance--"to whom shall we go?"--would not have come so readily to their lips without their having been delivered in the 4th watch, just hours earlier.

Now as far as arbitrariness or wierdness of the details of the miracle, I don't see that at all. The disciples clearly knew the Scriptures, and would have known the following as they worshipped their Savior in the boat:
Quote
Job 9 (Job speaking):
4 He is wise in heart and mighty in strength
:
8 who alone stretched out the heavens
and trampled the waves of the sea;
:
10 who does great things beyond searching out,
and marvelous things beyond number.
11 Behold, he passes by me, and I see him not;
he moves on, but I do not perceive him
.

and what should have been on their lips during the wind-beaten watches earlier:
Quote
Psalm 107:
23 Some went down to the sea in ships,
doing business on the great waters;
24 they saw the deeds of the LORD,
his wondrous works in the deep.
25 For he commanded and raised the stormy wind,
which lifted up the waves of the sea.
26 They mounted up to heaven; they went down to the depths;
their courage melted away in their evil plight;
27 they reeled and staggered like drunken men
and were at their witsí end.
28 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
and he delivered them from their distress.
29 He made the storm be still,
and the waves of the sea were hushed
.
30 Then they were glad that the waters were quiet,
and he brought them to their desired haven.
31 Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love,
for his wondrous works to the children of man!
32 Let them extol him in the congregation of the people,
and praise him in the assembly of the elders.


(Off-topic, but isn't it wonderful how the other 3 deliverances of Ps. 107--feeding the lost and hungry, breaking the chains of the bound, and healing the sick and afflicted--are also recorded among the types of miracles performed by Jesus on the shores of Galilee? And more wonderful still that those material deliverances prefigure the even greater deliverance He accomplishes now for our wretched souls?)


In Christ,
Paul S
#41475 - Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:34 AM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Paul_S]  
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Just picking up on this and going slightly off-topic... giggle

It is after they arrive at the other side of the lake that Jesus in an indirect way explains the actions of the people in an unexpected way. There He teaches about the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation, thus effectively taking away all extraneous reasons for people to follow after Him. It is not enough to follow Him as the One who benevolently supplies physical bread, sound moral teaching, etc. No! What is most necessary is that one partake of His person (eat my flesh and drink my blood) which can only be done should the Father draw him. Jesus makes this profound but simple statement:
John 6:63 (ASV) It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

Again, salvation comes from the sovereign work of the Spirit through the Word and not by any other means. But it was Jesus the Christ Himself Who had not only fed over 5000 men plus women plus children but taught them also, yet... Out of that great number of people only 12 remained with Him, and one of them was to betray Him.

Could we thus conclude, crassly, that the Lord Christ needed to be better educated in the area of evangelism? Perhaps He would have had much better results had He read one of Rick Warren's books or perhaps used "Evangelism Explosion" or "The Four Spiritual Laws"?

The miracle of sinners made hungry for Christ by the preaching of the Word and the ministration of the Spirit is not to be overshadowed by such things as Jesus walking on water and calming a storm. These are magnificent revelations of His deity to be sure. But they were momentary and done for a specific purpose and select group of men. The miracle of the new birth and being united to Christ by faith is an ongoing and present-day miracle that will continue to the end of the age. Those who are given to be hungry for God are given the Living Bread to feast upon and are forever satisfied.


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#41571 - Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:22 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Paul_S]  
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I think we're gettin a hold of something good stuff Paul

Last edited by Hitch; Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:58 AM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41735 - Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:26 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Funnny how things work out. When I put this question up I half anticipated a long, and very old practically cast in stone response related from the Reformers.

LOL I sure got one just came to a different address.

Last edited by Hitch; Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:26 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
#41736 - Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Hitch]  
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Hitch,
Quote
Funnny how things work out. When I put this question up I half anticipated a long, and very old practically cast in stone response related from the Reformers.

LOL I sure got one just came to a differnt address.


I have sometimes thought I could read between the lines in certain posts on this site.

What you have just posted, however, completely stumps me.

Having invested a fair amount of time thinking and studying through the question you asked at the top of the thread, I would appreciate a clarification of your last post.


In Christ,
Paul S
#41740 - Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:23 PM Re: BootsorGaloshes? [Re: Paul_S]  
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Originally Posted by Paul_S
Hitch,
Quote
Funnny how things work out. When I put this question up I half anticipated a long, and very old practically cast in stone response related from the Reformers.

LOL I sure got one just came to a differnt address.


I have sometimes thought I could read between the lines in certain posts on this site.

What you have just posted, however, completely stumps me.

Having invested a fair amount of time thinking and studying through the question you asked at the top of the thread, I would appreciate a clarification of your last post.
Sure. I was talking about Pilgrim's responses ,wrt the II Commandment, that led to the opening of the 'ThouShalt' thread.

I thought some one might very well say;; Oh yeah Luther wrote about this (Jesus walikng on the sea) and its all right here...


Does that help?








Last edited by Hitch; Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:25 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
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