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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41483
Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:19 PM
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This passage directs God's commandment concerning murder to Noah & family AFTER the flood.


Yes and noah was of that same seed adam, seth was..the godly seed, that would produce the christ..

lk 3:

Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,

37Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

God maintained the true image of God through the elect seed bloodline..thats why statements like this were made gen 6:

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

The Sons of God would be traced back to adam and seth..when seth was born, eve made a profound statement gen 4:

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

26And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Then in chpt 5 we have the restablishment of the truth of man being made in Gods image gen 5:

1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

This is referring back to adam at creation before the fall, because seth was of the godly seed..

The death penalty for mureder of man is first and foremeost a deterrent for the preservation of Gods elect..That was the main purpose for it..the human race was to produce the GodMan Mediator one day..

Your understanding is out of sync with Gods purpose for man sir..








Last edited by Anthony; Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:20 PM.
Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41484
Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Where you have gotten this erroneous idea that the image of God is to be restricted ONLY to man's moral attributes only you know

Where did i say this sir ? point this post out to us where i said that the image of God is to be restricted only to the ideal of mans moral attributes..

This is merely your interpretation of things..

It's what you have been insisting upon from the start and which you repeat below by quoting from Eph 4:24. Is this some sort of game you are playing?

Originally Posted by Anthony
Man has no image of God while he is unregenerated..The image of God man had in the beginning was patterend after Jesus christ, The GodMan Mediator..heb 1:

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person?, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Huh? What does Heb 1:3 have to do with the image of God which man was created with? Do you think that just because the word "image" appears in the text you can freely jerk it out of its context and make it mean something totally foreign to it? Have you no respect for the INSPIRATION of holy writ? You keep asserting these unsubstantiated ideas without any biblical support.

Originally Posted by Anthony
you are sadly mistaken to believe that the image of God is merely a physical appearance as the reprobate have or the unregenerated..do you really believe that, physical appearance alone is what consitiuted man being made in the image and likeness of God ? Thats it ?

Once again you have failed to READ what I and others have written. I have constantly maintained that the "imago dei" is multi-faceted and that some of that image was totally lost in the Fall and the remainder was horribly distorted. Yet, the image in toto was not lost else man would cease to be man. I have offered you quotes from prof. Berkhof whose view represents that of all historic Reformed Protestantism, biblical support, e.g., Isa 9:6 and many other texts. How about interacting with the Scriptures exegetically instead of your constant weightless prooftexting?

Ante up here sir or fold. grin

In His grace,


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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41486
Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:08 PM
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You have got to be kidding, right? drop As I explained already, the injunction against murder was given to Noah and his family and all that were to proceed from them, aka: all mankind. Thus within the family of Noah there were elect and non-elect. Secondly, the reason that murder was forbidden was because ALL men were created and are created in the image of God. If this were not so and IF as you are claiming that those created in the image of God only refers to the elect, it must be that murdering a reprobate individual is sanctioned by God. Thirdly, again IF the text says what you are wanting it to say, then how could anyone be charged with murder, especially after the Christ had come (or are you going to assert that this injunction ended with the coming of Christ?), without being able to discern that the victim was one of the elect? It's all nonsense... utter silliness, illogical, and contrary to the Scripture's teaching concerning murder elsewhere. igiveup

In His grace,


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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41487
Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:15 PM
Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:15 PM
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Anthony, I'm puzzled.
You quoted Gen 5:3. 'And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth.'

In whose likeness and in whose image was Seth? Surely in Adam's? God's image in which Adam was created was defaced and ruined by the Fall. As it is written, 'That which is born of the flesh [i.e. sinful human nature] is flesh.' Seth's position was just the same as ours (Eph 2:1-6 ). He was spiritually dead in trespasses and sin until God made him alive.

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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: grace2U] #41506
Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:58 AM
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It's what you have been insisting upon from the start and which you repeat below by quoting from Eph 4:24. Is this some sort of game you are playing?


Where did i insist this, are you going to be able to produce the quote you said i made or what ?

Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41507
Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:00 AM
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Huh? What does Heb 1:3 have to do with the image of God which man was created with


Wow your Lost, heb 1 3 is speaking of the image of God is it not ? Does God have different images now ? Do you believe that ?

Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41508
Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:07 AM
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Once again you have failed to READ what I and others have written. I have constantly maintained that the "imago dei" is multi-faceted and that some of that image was totally lost in the Fall and the remainder was horribly distorted. Yet, the image in toto was not lost else man would cease to be man. I have offered you quotes from prof. Berkhof whose view represents that of all historic Reformed Protestantism, biblical support, e.g., Isa 9:6 and many other texts. How about interacting with the Scriptures exegetically instead of your constant weightless prooftexting?


You place too high of opinion on men and not God..

You just dont understand the ruin of the fall of man, He fell from Gods image and likeness, didnt you realize that ? Paul calls even the elect, before born again, sometimes darkness eph5:

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Now are you saying folk walking around as darkness, not just in darkness, but actual darkness, have the image and likeness of God ?? Thats a terrible and blasphemous thought sir..


Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41509
Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:11 AM
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In whose likeness and in whose image was Seth? Surely in Adam's? God's image in which Adam was created was defaced and ruined by the Fall.


Adam was still in the godly line of the elect, and so was seth

Those in that seed line are ensured regeneration ..Thats why its relating seth back to the original creation..The image of God that adam had by creation, was subordinate to that which he would have at His regeneration..

Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41510
Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:16 AM
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You have got to be kidding, right? As I explained already, the injunction against murder was given to Noah and his family and all that were to proceed from them,


That has been acknowleged, the purpose for giving this injunction however was for the preservation of the elect of God who are the true bearers of the image and likeness of God via regeneration, so yes the injunction is quite appropiate..The non elect who are the devils children benefit somewhat from the mercies God shows the elect, since we still share this earthly pilgrimage with..The non elect, even the elect before new creation, have nothing of the image of God, save the physical appearance..

Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41519
Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony

Where did i insist this, are you going to be able to produce the quote you said i made or what ?

As you wish..... here are your very words which show that you reject any notion that the image of God in man includes anything corporeal, which view results in relegating "man" to the animal world until he is allegedly regenerated. Talk about holding to Greek philosophy.... get a life! [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by Anthony - Post #41462 - Thu Feb 12 2009 01:52 PM
Where does it say its not talking about the image of God being renewed, why, you are flatout rejecting what the scripture says..BTW, The image of God would be sanctification, do you understand what sanctification implies ? Its christlikeness, the image of God is restored when in regeneration the elect partake of the being conformed into the image of christ, this begins at regeneration or newbirht..we become a new man..

eph 4:

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

col 3:

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

And further:
Originally Posted by Anthony - Post #41461 - Thu Feb 12 2009 01:43 PM
You dont really understand the full implication of Jesus saying a man must be born again..oher than that we are merely flesh, thats not the Image of God, sorry..


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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41520
Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony
Wow your Lost, heb 1 3 is speaking of the image of God is it not ? Does God have different images now ? Do you believe that ?

Let's look at the text and not the twisted understanding of the text which you embrace from your "source":

Hebrews 1:2-3 (KJV) "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

1. The CONTEXT of this passage in regard to "image" is that of God Himself. The writer is confessing and declaring that Jesus Christ, was the incarnate Son of God for He <-- was the visible, express (identical) image of God. The God-man IS God and thus is the very "image" of God. This "image" was innate, not created, not inherited, etc.

2. The CONTEXT includes absolutely nothing about the "imago dei" which man is created with, which is a totally different thing. For, man was created "in His image, after His own likeness", i.e., God's communicable attributes were given to man vs. the Son who innately possesses both communicable and incommunicable attributes because He is GOD.

3. IF you are going to insist that the "image" spoken of in this passage (Heb 1:3) is the SAME image that man was originally created with, lost in the Fall, and is restored in regeneration, then you are guilty of even more heresy by making man deity, falling out of deity, and having his deity restored by another equal deity.

You just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper and then jumping into it without any forethought whatsoever. This is what happens when a person fails to THINK for himself because he binds himself to some tiny group of dissenters who railed against all of Christendom and asserting their own distorted, indefensible and unbiblical views about things. drop


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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41521
Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony
Quote
You have got to be kidding, right? As I explained already, the injunction against murder was given to Noah and his family and all that were to proceed from them,

That has been acknowleged, the purpose for giving this injunction however was for the preservation of the elect of God who are the true bearers of the image and likeness of God via regeneration, so yes the injunction is quite appropiate..The non elect who are the devils children benefit somewhat from the mercies God shows the elect, since we still share this earthly pilgrimage with..The non elect, even the elect before new creation, have nothing of the image of God, save the physical appearance..

Once again you have chosen to totally ignore what was written and which was and is a defense of the historic Christian view and gone off with some unrelated gibberish. Why don't you deal with the issue and interact with the replies given to your statements? [Linked Image]

YOU state that the "image of God", which has nothing to do with man's physical being, was totally lost at the Fall. Thus, no man, even the elect possess the image of God until they are regenerated. As I clearly pointed out in a very simple way so that you could hopefully comprehend it, IF one takes your view that no man, even the elect, have the image of God until regeneration and that the reprobate not only do not have this image but never will have, then the prohibition and sanction against murder can only apply to the situation where an elect is murdered. Is this so hard for you to understand?

However, the true meaning of the text which the entire historic Christian Church has understood is that man in general, i.e., ALL men, women and children at conception bear the image of God in one respect and thus to take the life of ANY human being is wrong and the penalty for doing so is the forfeiture of your own life by order of the One Who is the Author of life itself.

Your view is nothing more than illogical nonsense. The error you began with only propagates further errors which result in more error, etc., etc., ad nauseam. You are doomed to perpetual error! Give it up, repent of your damnable heresies and come to the true Living Christ casting all your hope upon Him.

In His grace,


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Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Pilgrim] #41522
Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:51 AM
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As you wish..... here are your very words which show that you reject any notion that the image of God in man includes anything corporeal, which view results in relegating "man" to the animal world until he is allegedly regenerated. Talk about holding to Greek philosophy.... get a life!


You still have failed to produce a quote that i made about relating the image of God to morals, nothing is further from the truth..man is darkness before regeneration, dead darkness..and somehow you want to elevate this miserable condition to the Image and Likeness of God..

And to intimate the terrible loss of Gods image man had in his pristine glory, God oft times compare him to beast, animals..

2 pet 2:

12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

surely these have not the image and likeness of God..

jude

10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

surely these are not in the Image and Likeness of God..

ecc 3:

18I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Friend, outside of the renewing of the Holy Ghost, man has no Image and likeness of God..its a dishonor to God for you to maintain a view like this..


Last edited by Anthony; Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:52 AM.
Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Pilgrim] #41523
Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Anthony
Wow your Lost, heb 1 3 is speaking of the image of God is it not ? Does God have different images now ? Do you believe that ?

Let's look at the text and not the twisted understanding of the text which you embrace from your "source":

<blockquote>Hebrews 1:2-3 (KJV) "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"</blockquote>
1. The CONTEXT of this passage in regard to "image" is that of God Himself. The writer is confessing and declaring that Jesus Christ, was the incarnate Son of God for He <-- was the visible, express (identical) image of God. The God-man IS God and thus is the very "image" of God. This "image" was innate, not created, not inherited, etc.

2. The CONTEXT includes absolutely nothing about the "imago dei" which man is created with, which is a totally different thing. For, man was created "in His image, after His own likeness", i.e., God's communicable attributes were given to man vs. the Son who innately possesses both communicable and incommunicable attributes because He is GOD.

3. IF you are going to insist that the "image" spoken of in this passage (Heb 1:3) is the SAME image that man was originally created with, lost in the Fall, and is restored in regeneration, then you are guilty of even more heresy by making man deity, falling out of deity, and having his deity restored by another equal deity.

You just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper and then jumping into it without any forethought whatsoever. This is what happens when a person fails to THINK for himself because he binds himself to some tiny group of dissenters who railed against all of Christendom and asserting their own distorted, indefensible and unbiblical views about things. drop


The context of heb 1 doesnt go against the truth that Jesus christ is in the Image and likeness of God..now, are there two images and likenesses of God ? One for man and another for christ, or are they the same ?

Re: The Mediator of Men not devils [Re: Anthony] #41524
Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony
The context of heb 1 doesnt go against the truth that Jesus christ is in the Image and likeness of God..now, are there two images and likenesses of God ? One for man and another for christ, or are they the same ?

Either you are devoid of the ability to comprehend the English language or you are just plain blind to the truth due to your hardness of heart having been ensnared by the Particular Baptist errors. Whatever the reason, you apparently cannot understand that there is a difference between God and man in this discussion. Now tell me which is it:

1. Man is equal to Christ because he has an IDENTICAL image? OR

2 Christ is nothing more than a glorified man since His image is identical to that of man's?

So, yes, the "image" when referring to the LORD Christ is different in magnitude compared to that which man was created with and still has, albeit some of it is lost and the remainder distorted and corrupt. Man was not created as a "mirror image" of the Triune God.


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