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Re: True Worship ??? #4280
Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:39 AM
Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
USA
J_Edwards Offline OP
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J_Edwards  Offline OP
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Salt and Light is great and definitely a call .... But, pearls may "trampled" upon as well and thus at times it is time to move on.<br><br>Additionally, as individuals we go through stages and sometimes need more NOURISHMENT and less MINISTRY (younger in the faith) and then at other times MORE MINISTRY and even more NOURISHMENT (you are fighting more battles). As one ripens with spiritual age hopefully they will find a balance in one church. The only suggestions here are one set down priorities, such as:<br><br>1. I am called of God to minister His gifts. Where may I "effectively" serve?<br>2. I am called to worship God. Where can I "effectively" worship?<br>3. I am called to be under a leadership. Where can I biblically submit to leadership?<br>4. and so, forth...<br><br>What I would do is a make a complete list of things. Pray about where God desires you. Sometimes the list will just jump out and you will see it immediately and at other times.......


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: True Worship ??? #4281
Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:18 PM
Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:18 PM
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Posts: 13,540
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Quote
In reply to:I don't in any way want to be a legalist . . .
Linda,
What you have described as your distaste and/or rejection of contemporary things found in far too many churches is not "legalism"! . . . unless you are wanting to make these things a matter of salvation (gained or lost). I doubt that you are thinking that they are. That they are sinful, I totally agree. In fact, I would go so far as to classify them as being idolatrous because such things are "vain worship". Dr. John Armstrong wrote a great article concerning contemporary "worship" which you can read by clicking the link below:
The Contemporary Church
Darryl Hart also has written an article criticizing what you find objectionable, which you can read by clicking the link below:
Evangelicals on the Durham Trail
And almost lastly, in the event that you haven't perused the "Ecclesiology" section of The Highway, you will find many more articles there which deal with such subjects as worship, music, singing, etc. You can access that section by clicking the link below:
Ecclesiology: The Church
Now lastly, Yes, things are getting just a bit off-topic!
In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: True Worship ??? [Re: Pilgrim] #4282
Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:13 PM
Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:13 PM

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Thanks as usual for the information. I didn't mean to get off topic, but that is quite easy on this board with so much great information.<br><br>I will read the articles you sent.<br><br>Linda

Re: True Worship ??? [Re: J_Edwards] #4283
Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:14 PM
Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:14 PM

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Joe:<br>Proper, True, Biblical Worship in the Church:<br><br>a) What is it? <br>b) Have you experienced it?<br>c) Are you experiencing now in your church?<br>d) What does it REALLY look like?<br><br>a) What is it? Jesus defines it as 'worshipping in spirit and in truth for the Father seeks such to worship him."<br>That presupposes:<br>1) You are born again of the water and the spirit - per Jesus<br><br> 2) that you have received [as opposed to refused[, love of the Truth - the Living Word Jesus.<br><br>b) Have you experienced it? By the grace of God I have and do.<br><br>c) Are you experiencing it now in your church? With all my heart I wish... Not in my church, but on the other hand I do worship with my family [rarely - when possible] daily with only the Holy Spirit in the temple Jesus Christ in the spirit...not restricted to Sundays. <br><br>d) What does it really look like? In my case it's by faith, not by sight; "Faith IS the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen." Not formal on bended knee - though my heart bows before Him.<br>I listen to taped or internet audio sermons. Search the scriptures to verify the word spoken is truth in Jesus Christ. True worship is not bound to place or time. It looks like, no - rather it IS love, joy in forgiveness of sin, faith, grace, hope, goodness, justice, mercy, loving kindness, assurance, comfort, accessibility, and nearness of the Lord God Redeemer. It's the New Song.<br>

Re: True Worship ??? #4284
Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:00 PM
Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:00 PM

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Seya:<br><br>What you seem to be expressing is your personal worship. And what Joe is asking about is corporate worship IE: with believers gathered together to hear the scriptures preached, and the sacraments rightly distributed.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The marks by which the true Church is known are these: If the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein; if it maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in chastening of sin; in short, if all things are managed according to the pure Word of God, all things contrary thereto rejected, and Jesus Christ acknowledged as the only Head of the Church. Hereby the true Church may certainly be known, from which no man has a right to separate himself. The Belgic Confession of Faith, Article XXIX <br>The Marks of the True Church, and Wherein it Differs from the False Church </font><hr></blockquote><p>

Re: True Worship ??? #4285
Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:06 AM
Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:06 AM

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You are right, thank you. I have read Luther's description of the true church and believe it.

Re: True Worship ??? (A Good Article) [Re: RefDoc] #4286
Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:28 AM
Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:28 AM

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I read the part "the False Worship of the True God" and it helped me to better define idolatry as taking many forms. Thank you - I'll go back and finish it.

Re: True Worship ??? [Re: J_Edwards] #4287
Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:20 PM
Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:20 PM

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Joe: Once again I agree but how do you DO THIS? What does it mean to SEEK with ALL your heart? Does it not include prayer, Bible Study, worship, discipline, obedience, et. al.?<br><br>Sometimes it means just waiting on God. For months and months - years even. This too can be a trial of faith whether it will fall into self-induced works . When God answersss it is at a time when one is able receive [hear] it.

Re: True Worship ??? [Re: gotribe] #4288
Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:49 PM
Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:49 PM

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Godly response. "Whose adorning" let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

Re: True Worship ??? [Re: J_Edwards] #4289
Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:15 AM
Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 51
Argyll, Scotland.
Saved_n_kept Offline
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Joe,
As I read your post and the replies, thoughts on a passage of scripture have been going round in my head. The passage is Isaiah 6:1-8.

What is worship.
First. Seeing God as He is. Sitting upon a throne. High and lifted up. All that that conveys to us of His exaltedness, glory, sovereignty. A consciousness that we approach One before whom the very angels veil their faces, while singing of that most celebrated of all His attributes, His holiness. (THRICE holy!)

Second. Seeing ourselves as we really are. We are sinners. And particularly our lips, with which we speak God's praise, are unclean. No one is exempt. If God's voice caused the door posts to move surely we ought to be on our faces, crying "Woe is me!"

Third. A testimoney of our own utter helplessness and unworthiness, and of His amazing grace in our iniquity being taken away and our sin purged by Christ.

Fourth. A joyful response when we hear God's voice, "Here am I; send me."

Are you experiencing it now in your church. Sadly I have at present no live church connection in this area.

What does it really look like. I don't know, but I imagine Daniel 10:15-19 comes close.

Have you experienced it. Joe, thank you for starting this thread. I may not have answered your question but you have been used to direct my thoughts to verses which have caused me to worship, and I wanted to share it. To Him alone be all the glory.
Yours in Him,
Brian.

Re: True Worship ??? [Re: Saved_n_kept] #4290
Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:10 AM
Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
USA
J_Edwards Offline OP
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J_Edwards  Offline OP
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Excellent.<br><br>You will find many of your views here expanded upon in the book called With Reverence and Awe by D.G. Hart and John R. Muether. It will change the way you desire to worship.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
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