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Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: Johan] #44410
Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:47 PM
Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,522
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Johan

It is good you are going to see your pastor about the issue.
However, I am assuming that your pastor is Reformed? If that is the case, although this does not justify what he said; he could be saying that man's sin and depravity affects their mind set; which of course it does. This of course is only a small portion of what sin and depravity affect.

What I have found quite odd even among Reformed pastors today, is that they often change the words in order to help people understand things better.
In my mind however, I think they succeed only in confusing the issue.
I think a better way to do what they are trying to do (if they find a need to do it), is to use the words that have always been used, then explain what it means.

Tom

Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: sojourner] #44413
Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:26 PM
Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
USA
P
Peter Offline
Old Hand
Peter  Offline
Old Hand
P
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USA
Sojourner I can only answer one question on that: Yes it is a new church.

However, since he is "the pastor" of the church I would make some assertions that I will gladly share.

If the pastor didn't have a hand in drafting this statement of faith he should have been the one overseeing those that did. If the pastor viewed this statement of faith (SOF) and saw obvious errors why didn't he immediately change the SOF? Sorry that is just acedia and if he is that way with the basic beliefs of the church what is he doing handling the Word of God?






Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: Tom] #44414
Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:24 AM
Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 323
South Africa
Johan Offline

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Johan  Offline

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Posts: 323
South Africa
Originally Posted by Tom
Johan

It is good you are going to see your pastor about the issue.
However, I am assuming that your pastor is Reformed? If that is the case, although this does not justify what he said; he could be saying that man's sin and depravity affects their mind set; which of course it does. This of course is only a small portion of what sin and depravity affect.

What I have found quite odd even among Reformed pastors today, is that they often change the words in order to help people understand things better. In my mind however, I think they succeed only in confusing the issue. I think a better way to do what they are trying to do (if they find a need to do it), is to use the words that have always been used, then explain what it means.

Tom


Tom,

Yes, the pastor is reformed.

You may be right in that pastors "often change the words to help people understand things better". But why is it that a couple of hundred years ago it was not necessary. What's wrong with our 21st century "well educated" person? None of the great Confessions of Faith use such phrasing.

Johan

Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: Johan] #44415
Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:29 AM
Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
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Robin Offline
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Robin  Offline
The Boy Wonder
R
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Florida
'Tis a fine line to walk, being completely accurate while at the same time putting things as simply as possible. That's why the Confessions are so very valuable! I think that the divines who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) included the catechisms (shorter and larger) for that very purpose. If I was writing a Statement of Faith, I might at least take the answers from the shorter catechism and employ them in my SOF. Efforts to reduce a SOF down to the "bare essentials" are all too often so vague that no one has a clue what they mean. But they "sound pretty."

Not that even as detailed, specific, and exhaustive a Statement of Faith as the WCF has been enough to prevent entire denominations who claim to believe it from committing apostasy. If we cannot agree on something so detailed and so exactingly precise, I wonder what makes people think they can agree on one of these shallow, generalized "statements" of faith!

-R

Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: Robin] #44416
Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:39 AM
Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,510
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Pilgrim  Offline OP

Head Honcho
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Posts: 13,510
NH, USA
Originally Posted by Robin
I wonder what makes people think they can agree on one of these shallow, generalized "statements" of faith!

yep We have precise and cogent statements of faith in the historic confessions that emerged out of great controversy which were prayerfully written by godly and biblically knowledgeable men. The fundamentals of the faith have been established and written in stone, IMHO and thus as has been the view for centuries, they are a subordinate authority, yet reliable summaries of biblical doctrine to which the churches have embraced and used for the guarding of the church and training in righteousness of the saints.

I think these "shallow, generalized statements" have been designed to do just that, i.e., to be non-specific in order to allow the masses to give their assent since they stand as a wide opening for many to pass through. I have often described such statements as akin to putting a screen door in a submarine.


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: How would you evaluate the following statement? [Re: Robin] #44425
Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:14 PM
Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 149
Georgia, USA
sojourner Offline

Member
sojourner  Offline

Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 149
Georgia, USA
Robin and Peter,
Bullseye.The careless handling of the Word is rampant today, especially with our media preachers.They skim over or omit the essentials of our faith ie.,the holiness of the sabbath,the law and how it applies to us today and the sinfulness of man, while making great efforts to promote the loving side of God. As Paul said ,it is a different gospel.
My church is about to wrap up a study of the 1689 LBCF.We started this endeavor in October last year.It has been the most eyeopening study I have ever participated in.Every one of the dozen regular attendees has had to say on a number of occasions,"I didn't know that."
How can we live what we believe if we don't know what we believe?

Last edited by sojourner; Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:15 PM.

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