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Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? #46938
Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:02 PM
Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 100
Boise, ID
via_dolorosa Offline OP
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via_dolorosa  Offline OP
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Now that we got the verdict that Casey Anthony is going to get away with murder, I'd like to ask, can a person who refuses to confess murder be forgiven?

No, I don't mean privately asking God for forgiveness. I mean going to the police, confessing the crime, and taking the punishment for it. Will a person receive the mercy of heaven when they shunned the justice of man?

Matthew 5 (NKJV)
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

You see, I believe it's absolutely impossible to be forgiven for murder when it remains concealed. God's mercy in the afterlife is contingent on being reconciled to man, a fact alluded to here in this gospel passage. Even if that reconciliation means death, a person may then hope and pray for mercy when they stand before God; having paid a temporal price for their sin. I am convinced to the depths of my soul that if somebody kills another and then hides it from the authorities, they have no chance of salvation even if they seek it diligently with tears on bended knee.

As an odd quirk of the American justice system, even if Casey Anthony confessed it now, she could not be punished because of Double Jeopardy. The non guilty verdict may be to her and those like her (OJ Simpson) an inescapable sentence to eternal punishment in hell.

What do you think?


Liberalism -- Ideas so good, they have to be mandated.
Re: Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? [Re: via_dolorosa] #46939
Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:47 PM
Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:47 PM
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via_dolorosa Offline OP
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To develop my last point even further, in cases where Double Jeopardy has applied and a person can no longer be punished by the American justice system even if they confess, is there any hope for them?

I say no again. I say no because through the trial, the defendent was asked repeatedly to confess to what they have done. The first few times is heartbreaking for a guilty person to feel that heart tug to open the floodgates and reveal the crime they have committed. The desire to confess one's guilt is given to us by God to open up a path to reconciliation when we have seriously erred. When that mechanism is ignored time and time again, as is the case with someone being tried for murder, the heart becomes hardened and the decision to conceal one's guilt solidified. This is why we are warned repeatedly not to harden our hearts in Scripture. Those of us who do become "locked in" to a path leading straight to damnation; not because of God's unwillingness to forgive, but because of our unwillingness to repent.

Shudder the thought that we should ever take that course!


Liberalism -- Ideas so good, they have to be mandated.
Re: Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? [Re: via_dolorosa] #46940
Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:31 PM
Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:31 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
To develop my last point even further, in cases where Double Jeopardy has applied and a person can no longer be punished by the American justice system even if they confess, is there any hope for them?

scratchchin Would I be correct in concluding that you believe that this particular sin confessed (are there any others?) Christ did not shed His blood, even for those who are truly His? Or, perhaps you believe that Christ's blood was shed for this confessed sin but His atonement is ineffective? Or, do you believe this is what is popularly known as the "unpardonable sin"?


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Re: Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? [Re: Pilgrim] #46944
Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:57 PM
Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:57 PM
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Boise, ID
via_dolorosa Offline OP
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via_dolorosa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
To develop my last point even further, in cases where Double Jeopardy has applied and a person can no longer be punished by the American justice system even if they confess, is there any hope for them?

scratchchin Would I be correct in concluding that you believe that this particular sin confessed (are there any others?) Christ did not shed His blood, even for those who are truly His? Or, perhaps you believe that Christ's blood was shed for this confessed sin but His atonement is ineffective? Or, do you believe this is what is popularly known as the "unpardonable sin"?


Greetings, Pilgrim.

I believe that murder is a crime against God and against man simutaneously, and reconcilation must be sought with both. The "my sin is private" thinking that has gained a foothold in much of Christianity flies right in the face of Scripture. When Paul addressed sexual immorality within the community of Christians, he treated it as a crime against the Church, defiling the whole body. To say, "I offended both God and man, but only have to answer to God" is to completely deny the many scriptural references to being subject to the laws of men, beginning with the Levitical system of justice God ordained to prosecute crimes not only against God but against man. The Ten Commandments themselves are telling in that the first 4 deal with offenses against God, and the last 6 deal with offenses against God and man alike, along with prescriptions on how such violations are to be dealt with.

So let me turn this back on you. Are you suggesting that if someone commits murder, they may conceal their crime from the justice system so long as they confess it to God privately?


Liberalism -- Ideas so good, they have to be mandated.
Re: Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? [Re: via_dolorosa] #46946
Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:11 PM
Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:11 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
I believe that murder is a crime against God and against man simutaneously, and reconciliation must be sought with both. The "my sin is private" thinking that has gained a foothold in much of Christianity flies right in the face of Scripture.

ALL sin is against God and man, whether it be another or oneself.

Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
When Paul addressed sexual immorality within the community of Christians, he treated it as a crime against the Church, defiling the whole body.

Methinks your interpretation of the passage referred to is flawed. Paul's emphasis is upon one's own physical body and the soul, which are created in the image of God and thus this particular sin, sexual immorality, is a heinous sin indeed.

Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
So let me turn this back on you. Are you suggesting that if someone commits murder, they may conceal their crime from the justice system so long as they confess it to God privately?

1. You haven't address my question(s) to you which focus upon the sufficiency and legality of Christ's atonement. Will you please do so?

2. To answer your question in a general way, my answer would be, "No." Where possible, reconciliation with an offended party should be pursued. However, in the case of murder, it is hardly possible to make amends with a victim who is dead. In your other post you offered a situation where a murderer hides his sin for a period of time but then later confesses that sin to the authorities and then remarked that due to the fact that the crime was hidden for a time, even though later confessed, this person could never receive mercy from God. Thus my question(s) to you for the purpose of soliciting clarification and your view. Please do so.


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Re: Is Unconfessed Murder Forgiveable? [Re: Pilgrim] #46954
Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:22 PM
Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:22 PM
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Boise, ID
via_dolorosa Offline OP
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via_dolorosa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim



Originally Posted by via_dolorosa
So let me turn this back on you. Are you suggesting that if someone commits murder, they may conceal their crime from the justice system so long as they confess it to God privately?

1. You haven't address my question(s) to you which focus upon the sufficiency and legality of Christ's atonement. Will you please do so?

Certainly. The atoning death of Christ did not turn God into a slot machine whereby forgiveness is meted out perfunctorily every time the lever is pulled. God will have mercy upon whom he will, and I don't think he will be merciful to those who ask for mercy while shunning the justice of man. The theme repeated throughout scripture is that God's justice is expressed through the laws of man, imperfect as they are. This is why we are to be subject to the governing authorities as to God, so long as those authorities don't tell us to violate God's law. It's inconsistant to suggest one can be subject to one without the other.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim


2. To answer your question in a general way, my answer would be, "No." Where possible, reconciliation with an offended party should be pursued. However, in the case of murder, it is hardly possible to make amends with a victim who is dead. In your other post you offered a situation where a murderer hides his sin for a period of time but then later confesses that sin to the authorities and then remarked that due to the fact that the crime was hidden for a time, even though later confessed, this person could never receive mercy from God. Thus my question(s) to you for the purpose of soliciting clarification and your view. Please do so.


No, I'm not referring to a delayed confession, but rather one that is withheld altogether.


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