The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Return or?

In a recent exchange concerning whether Zech 14 is future or past (past in my view, but thats not the subject here) I asked the following question;

;Do you expect a wholesale return to Judaism or only those specifics mentioned in Z14?


The reply;


This is a false dichotomy. Judaism was never supposed to go away. How can a return to Judaism happen if it was never abandoned?



I was and am astonished.Its not easy to render me speechless but this one almost made it.

Does anyone here agree with Judaism was never supposed to go away. ?

What do you all think? Not to poison the well but I think its utter nonsense.



Not to worry i will not be bringing any further snippets

I cringe when I read some Dispensationalist accounts of a restored Temple in Jerusalem and Christ Himself officiating over renewed animal sacrifices and Old Testament rites that prefigured His work. I can think of nothing that would be more offensive to the Lamb of God than to preside over further sacrifices as though His own "wasn't good enough."

But you might be talking about some versions of Postmillennialism in which a Jewish-style "golden age" theocracy rules the planet Earth before the Lord's return, and a powerful, victorious Church presents the Lord with a conquered and subdued planet with a global "Christianized" culture. "Lord, Lord," we will say, "Look at all the wonderful stuff we have done in Your name!"

As much as I wish and hope that the Postmil folks are right, I see the "persecuted remnant rescued at Christ's return from a world culture that is captive to Satan" scenario as more biblical. Persecuted, yet victorious, in the same way that Christ's death was a victory; and the triumphant deaths of the martyrs as a greater victory.

AMEN! You preach it brother... I stutter.

This guy is definitely DF , and Im familiar with Chafer's 'return to judasim', but that it was never intended end blew me away, I'd never heard that before. ' Lord Lord Your works are a marvel to our eyes' .But thats a subject for another thread. The question here is This is a false dichotomy. Judaism was never supposed to go away. How can a return to Judaism happen if it was never abandoned? Is this a correct assertion, is any part of it correct? If it is I sure cant see it. Isnt one of the 'more perfect' aspects of the New covenant is its eternal nature as opposed to the designed temporary nature of the old? as I understand it AM teaches satan was bound at the cross

What do you think of this;

1. In regard to Israel, i.e., the national people, it was God's prescriptive will (revealed will) that they would be faithful to their God. But it was God's decretive will (eternal council) that they would "go away". This is NOT some kind of double-talk nor is it espousing a "two wills in God" error.

2. The fact is that God divorced Israel for it's spiritual adultery.

God divorced Israel on the grounds that she was an adulteress. In Jeremiah 3, we read that God found Israel to be so persistently promiscuous (by worshipping idols) that He felt compelled to divorce her.

"God says, "If a husband divorces his wife and she goes from him and belongs to another man, will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; yet you turn to Me," declares the LORD."

"Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlot's forehead; You refused to be ashamed."

"Then the LORD said to me in the days of Josiah the king, "Have you seen what faithless Israel did? She went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and she was a harlot there."

"And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also." (Jeremiah 3:1,3,6,8)

3. Will the nation of Israel be restored? I say no.... never. The true Israel the Church will come to its fulfillment when all the elect, both Jews and Gentiles, are effectually called and are one in Christ.

That's my

I would summarize by saying that Judaism is completed in Christianity, not "gone away." Judaism was meant for the world, not just for Israel. Those who are Abraham's faith are true sons and daughters of Abraham, and that faith has always looked to the Messiah, the Christ.

It is not Judaism that has "gone away," but Judaism practiced as though it is not fulfilled in Christ is to be abandoned.

Here's another way of saying it: A pastor was facing surgery and requested a hospital chaplain. A Reformed Jew met with him and the pastor asked the Rabbi to pray for him.

"After all," he said, "We serve the same God."

I respectfully disagree. Jews and Christians do not worship the same God! To elaborate:

We Christians worship the Man Jesus of Nazareth as God. The Jews do not. We believe the Scriptures of both Testaments describe a Triune God, One in essence, Three in Person. The Jews do not.

While we share some common scriptures, we certainly do not worship the same God in any sense. One might actually say that believers in Christ are "better Jews than the Jews are," since we receive and worship and follow the Messiah and enjoy the indwelling presence of God.

I hope that helps...