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#48926 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:52 AM SBC Statement
sojourner Offline

Member

Registered: Friday, February 13, 2009
Posts: 142
Loc: Georgia, USA
A statement posted just a few days ago on SBC Today entitled,"A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God's Plan of Salvation" has created a furor by asking for signatures of those who are in agreement.The authors claim on the one hand to not being divisive but on the other have intentionally misrepresented Calvinism and have made comparisons that in no way are fair.It is one of the most onesided things I have ever witnessed.
My pastor alerted me to this last week.He went over much of the document Sunday night pointing out errors here and there and encouraging us to read it and to tell others about what appears to a line drawn in the sand, so to speak.
If "tradition" is what the authors are striving for they should have gone back to the 1689 LBCF,not 1925 and the birth of the Cooperative Program.
See here for the article. http://sbctoday.com/?p=8125re
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#48927 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:56 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Tuesday, April 3, 2001
Posts: 13305
Loc: NH, USA
Yes, I read through the statement last week or the week before and it is definitely fraught with errors, misrepresentations and promotes a semi-Pelagian theological position.

And, I agree 100% that if they want to go back to a 'traditional view' they should recant their current semi-Pelagian position and embrace the doctrines set forth in the 1689 LBCF. That document defines what a historic Baptist holds to be true. evilgrin
_________________________


simul iustus et peccator


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#48935 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:04 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life

Registered: Sunday, April 8, 2001
Posts: 3868
Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Nobody can sign something like that and say that they actually believe the doctrines of grace.

Tom

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#48943 - Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:56 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
chestnutmare Offline



Registered: Monday, September 8, 2003
Posts: 2458
Loc: NH
No wonder, Dr. Albert Mohler, President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, commented on this errant SBC document:

I have very serious reservations and concerns about some of its assertions and denials. I fully understand the intention of the drafters to oppose several Calvinist renderings of doctrine, but some of the language employed in the statement goes far beyond this intention. Some portions of the statement actually go beyond Arminianism and appear to affirm semi-Pelagian understandings of sin, human nature, and the human will—understandings that virtually all Southern Baptists have denied.

To read more, click here
_________________________
The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"

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#48945 - Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:21 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: chestnutmare]
John_C Offline

Permanent Resident

Registered: Saturday, September 15, 2001
Posts: 1898
Loc: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Was the semi-pelagian statement approved by the assembly? If so, are there any threatening to leave?
_________________________
John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7

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#48948 - Saturday, June 30, 2012 7:50 AM Re: SBC Statement [Re: John_C]
sojourner Offline

Member

Registered: Friday, February 13, 2009
Posts: 142
Loc: Georgia, USA
I just read yesterday that it was approved by the Convention by an 80% affirmative vote.I don't know about whole churches leaving but I do know that individuals are praying for guidance.
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#48949 - Saturday, June 30, 2012 10:18 AM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
John_C Offline

Permanent Resident

Registered: Saturday, September 15, 2001
Posts: 1898
Loc: Mississippi Gulf Coast
So in essence the SBC is denying the 5 Solas. Which may be okay as many of them felt uncomfortable with being grouped in with the Reformation.
_________________________
John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7

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#48950 - Saturday, June 30, 2012 6:11 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Tuesday, April 3, 2001
Posts: 13305
Loc: NH, USA
Originally Posted By: sojourner
I just read yesterday that it was approved by the Convention by an 80% affirmative vote.I don't know about whole churches leaving but I do know that individuals are praying for guidance.

As previously mentioned, IF this affirmation doesn't become a requirement that elders and/or deacons or even local church members have to give conscription, then it is of no consequence. Contrariwise, IF conscription is required, then this would virtually force all true Calvinists out of the SBC, which is most likely what is at least partially behind the adoption of this "Statement". However, there is another consideration which might need to be addressed. IF the SBC requires local churches to contribute financially to the SBC, e.g., a "quota system", then this may and IMHO should cause some serious prayer and discussion, on the local church level, in regard to whether a church can in good conscience adhere to the financial requirement which would support a denomination which is openly semi-Pelagian and hostile to Calvinism.
_________________________


simul iustus et peccator


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#48982 - Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:51 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: sojourner]
sojourner Offline

Member

Registered: Friday, February 13, 2009
Posts: 142
Loc: Georgia, USA
I was told last night that the 80% affirmative vote did not apply to the "Statement" but only to the "Sinner's Prayer",a resolution offered at the convention.The original resolution concerning the sinner's prayer was offered by Dr. Eric Hankins who also was one of the authors of the "Statement".His offering was not just tweaked as some have said but was given a complete overhaul in my estimation.I will provide a link at the end of my post.As for the "Statement",it never got out of committee to be voted on.
As for contributions from the local SB churches to the state and national SBC it is a matter of choice.Many churches give ten percent but many others,including the one that I am a member of give less.One-half goes to the state agency and the other half goes to the national agency.
As Pilgrim has wisely suggested there is much prayer and discussion on the local level as to what should be done.




Friday, June 22, 2012A Tale of Two Resolutions on the "Sinner's Prayer"
It has been interesting to read some of the responses to the adoption of the resolution on the "sinner's prayer" by the SBC in New Orleans last Wednesday. From the way some Calvinists and others speak of it, you would think that the convention affirmed Finney and enshrined all of his new measures as the required practice of every Southern Baptist church. On the other hand, to listen to the way that some neo-traditionalists and others speak of it, you might think that the messengers put a beat down on Calvinists in the SBC by passing the resolution.

The truth, as is so often the case, is found in neither narrative. The confusion stems at least in part from the fact that the resolution on the "sinner's prayer" that was widely touted by neo-traditionalists before the convention was completely different from the one that came out of committee and was ultimately adopted by the messengers. The one that Eric Hankins submitted was problematic for many reasons. The one that was presented and adopted was much more carefully worded and grounded in biblical language and reasoning.

There were some who spoke against the resolution that made it to the floor, primarily due to the damage that superficial evangelism (which often uses a form of words "as an incantation that results in salvation merely by its recitation") has done to individuals and churches. This, however, is far from a "Calvinist" concern. Nor would it be accurate to evaluate the passing of this resolution as a slap against the more reformed elements in the convention.

The most impassioned statement made during the debate was by Mitch Axsom, an elder at First Baptist Church of Clinton, Louisiana. That 175 year old church's confession of faith is the 1689 Baptist Confession and Mitch spoke for the resolution.

To make it easier for you to compare the resolution that was submitted to the one that was adopted, I have reproduced them both below. Hopefully, this will help clear up some confusion and prevent further misrepresentation of what happened in New Orleans regarding the "sinner's prayer" resolution.



This is the resolution that Eric Hankins submitted:


WHEREAS, God desires for every person to be saved and has made salvation available for any person who hears the Gospel (John 3:16; Romans 10:14-17; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2); and

WHEREAS, A free response to the Holy Spirit’s drawing through the Gospel is both possible and necessary in order for anyone to be born again (John 3:1-16; Acts 16:30-31; Romans 10:11-13; 1 Thessalonians 2:13); and

WHEREAS, Prayer is God’s gracious means through which any person can communicate with Him and is everywhere in Scripture commanded and commended for every matter and every person (2 Chronicles 7:14; Matthew 7:7-11; Mark 11:17; Philippians 4:6); and

WHEREAS, Praying to God to express repentance for sins, to acknowledge Christ as Lord, and to ask for forgiveness and salvation is modeled in the Bible (Acts 2:37-38; Romans 10:9-10); and

WHEREAS, While there is no one uniform wording found in Scripture or in the churches for a “Sinner’s Prayer,” the prayer of repentance and faith, acknowledging salvation through Christ alone and expressing complete surrender to His Lordship, is the biblical means by which any person can turn from sin and self, place his faith in Christ, and find forgiveness and eternal life (Luke 18:9-14, 23:39-43); and

WHEREAS, It is biblically appropriate to help a sinner in calling on the Lord for salvation and to speak of Christ’s response to such a prayer as “entering a sinner’s heart and life” (John 14:23; Acts 2:37-40; 16:29-30; Romans 10:11-17; Ephesians 3:17); and

WHEREAS, A “Sinner’s Prayer” is not an incantation that results in salvation merely by its recitation and should never be manipulatively employed or utilized apart from a clear articulation of the Gospel (Matthew 6:7, 15:7-9; 28:18-20); now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in New Orleans, LA, June 19-20, 2012, commend the use of a “Sinner’s Prayer” as a biblically sound and spiritually significant component of the evangelistic task of the church; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage all Christians to enthusiastically and intentionally proclaim the Gospel to sinners everywhere, being prepared to give them the reason for the hope we have in Christ (I Peter 3:15), and being prepared to lead them to confess faith in Christ (Romans 10:9), including praying to receive Him as Savior and Lord (John 1:12).


This is the resolution that the SBC adopted:


AN AFFIRMATION OF A “SINNER’S PRAYER” AS A BIBLICAL EXPRESSION OF REPENTANCE AND FAITH
June 2012
WHEREAS, The Gospel of Jesus Christ offers full forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God to anyone who repents of sin and trusts in Christ; and

WHEREAS, This same Gospel commands all persons everywhere to believe this Gospel and receive Christ as Savior and Lord (Mark 1:15; John 1:12; 6:25–52; Acts 17:30); and

WHEREAS, The Scriptures give examples of persons from diverse backgrounds who cried out for mercy and were heard by God (Luke 18:13; Acts 16:29–30); and

WHEREAS, The Scriptures also give numerous examples of persons who verbally affirmed Gospel truths but who did not personally know Jesus in a saving relationship (Luke 22:47–48; John 2:23–25; 1 Corinthians 10:1–5); and

WHEREAS, Empty religion and formalism, of whatever kind, apart from personal relationship with Christ, cannot wash away sin or transform a heart (Matthew 7:21; 15:8; John 3:3); and

WHEREAS, The Bible speaks of salvation as including both a confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and a belief in the heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Matthew 16:16; Romans 10:9–10); now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana, June 19–20, 2012, reaffirm our Gospel conviction that repentance from sin and personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are necessary for salvation (Acts 20:20–21); and be it further

RESOLVED, That we affirm that repentance and faith involve a crying out for mercy and a calling on the Lord (Romans 10:13), often identified as a “sinner's prayer,” as a biblical expression of repentance and faith; and be it further

RESOLVED, That a “sinner’s prayer” is not an incantation that results in salvation merely by its recitation and should never be manipulatively employed or utilized apart from a clear articulation of the Gospel (Matthew 6:7; 15:7–9); and be it further

RESOLVED, That we promote any and all biblical means of urging sinners to call on the name of the Lord in a prayer of repentance and faith; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we call on Southern Baptists everywhere to continue to carry out the Great Commission in North America and around the world, so that sinners everywhere, of every tribe, tongue, and language, may cry out, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13).


Edited by sojourner (Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:56 PM)
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#49048 - Sunday, August 12, 2012 11:25 PM Re: SBC Statement [Re: John_C]
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life

Registered: Sunday, April 8, 2001
Posts: 3868
Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Originally Posted By: John_C
So in essence the SBC is denying the 5 Solas. Which may be okay as many of them felt uncomfortable with being grouped in with the Reformation.


This quote reminded me of a conversation I had last year with a former deacon in the Church I attend.
For the last few years, our Church through the leadership of my pastor and a few elders/deacons have been more focused on being more intentional on sticking to our Reformed Baptist statement of faith. This has been quite an ordeal in the Church, but I am happy to say that although we have lost quite a few members over the issue, included two deacons. It is clear that we are moving in the right direction.

Getting back to my conversation with the former deacon that I had last year; John's quote above reminded me of what the deacon said to me.
He basically said that "we are not Protestants!" In other words he identified himself with the "Ana-Baptists", rather than the Baptists who identified themselves with the LBCF of either 1644 or 1689.
I found this to be quite a shock especially with the fact that he was a deacon in a Church where the statement of faith is clearly Reformed.
About a month after this conversation with him, he resigned from being a deacon and is no longer a member of our Church.

Tom

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