Donations for the month of July


We have received a total of $185 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Featured Member
Registered: Tuesday, May 31, 2016
Posts: 25
Forum Stats
872 Members
30 Forums
6212 Topics
48738 Posts

Max Online: 64 @ Tuesday, January 19, 2016 5:52 PM
Top Posters
Pilgrim 13737
J_Edwards 4843
Tom 4182
Wes 3553
chestnutmare 2725
CovenantInBlood 2375
MarieP 2311
RJ_ 2288
John_C 2029
gotribe 1780
Top Posters (30 Days)
Pilgrim 45
Tom 21
Meta4 20
Mckinley 18
AJ Castellitto 12
Robin 7
John_C 5
Leah Ireland 4
BereanMe 3
Johan 3
Recent Posts
What was the route through the Red Sea?
by Relztrah
Today at 12:39 PM
LIKE A DEER CAUGHT IN THE HEADLIGHTS!
by Tom
Today at 12:26 PM
Royal Succession
by John_C
Yesterday at 09:00 PM
Are you Reformed?
by Pilgrim
Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:12 PM
Speaking of Baptist
by Tom
Monday, July 25, 2016 2:48 PM
World Reformed Fellowship Network Statement of Faith
by Johan
Monday, July 18, 2016 10:19 PM
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop to:
#49062 - Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:06 AM Small Increments of Change
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life

Registered: Sunday, April 8, 2001
Posts: 4182
Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
I found an interesting article that I thought was worth sharing.
You can read this article here.

Not fully sure if I agree with it, but it sure makes me think. It seems to be the method William Wilberforce used to eventually have slavery abolished.
But does the method make one compromise what they believe and is it more pragamatism than faith?

Tom


Edited by Tom (Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:13 AM)

Top
#49063 - Thursday, August 23, 2012 5:17 AM Re: Small Increments of Change [Re: Tom]
Pilgrim Online   content

Head Honcho

Registered: Tuesday, April 3, 2001
Posts: 13738
Loc: NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
I found an interesting article that I thought was worth sharing.
You can read this article here.

Not fully sure if I agree with it, but it sure makes me think. It seems to be the method William Wilberforce used to eventually have slavery abolished.
But does the method make one compromise what they believe and is it more pragmatism than faith?

I think this is one of those things that it would actually be beneficial to ask, "What would Jesus do?" In fact, one probably should ask, "What would Paul, John or Peter do?"

What I read in Scripture is men standing unwaveringly on principle; God's revealed will. Thousands suffered ridicule, incarceration, torture and even death rather than compromise their faith. Does voting for a bill which clearly violates God's law something a true Christian may do? I stand with those who say, "No!" nono Not only is it true that God's law cannot be compromised, but if one wishes to look at the pragmatic side, what does this convey to an unbelieving world about the Christian religion? Doesn't this send out a clear message that there are no absolutes even for Christians? Thus, anything goes given the right situation; aka: Situation Ethics.

I don't know anything about William Wilberforce's alleged "faith", i.e., whether he was genuinely converted or not. But from his pragmatic approach to resolving difficult problems the nation faced, it doesn't speak well of his professed commitment to the one true Living God and His Word, the final rule of faith and practice. In short, the message he conveyed to me is that Christians can be bought, because the end justifies the means.
_________________________


simul iustus et peccator


Top
#49064 - Friday, August 24, 2012 12:30 AM Re: Small Increments of Change [Re: Pilgrim]
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life

Registered: Sunday, April 8, 2001
Posts: 4182
Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrim

By your answers, I see that I was right to have my doubts concerning this.
Small increments in this case may seem wise on the serface; however the focus is all wrong. The focus is on man, rather than God and His objective Word.
While sometimes results can be positive while relying on "small increments of change". Never the less, even if we don't get the results we want. In the end, when we obey God's revealed will, we are God pleasers, rather than man pleasers.

Thank you

Tom

Top
#49065 - Friday, August 24, 2012 5:43 AM Re: Small Increments of Change [Re: Tom]
chestnutmare Offline



Registered: Monday, September 8, 2003
Posts: 2725
Loc: NH
I must admit that my opinion of Wilberforce is influenced by the movie "Amazing Grace" and so I am thankful for his efforts to have slavery abolished.

I also think that we are called to obey God and not man so indeed it would be difficult for a Christian to be a politician. When I think of ungodly demands being place upon believers, Daniel comes to mind. He refused to bow down, or make any show of compliance with King Nebuchadnezzar's sinful demands. Instead he obeyed God and incurred the consequences, as did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

Its my opinion that a Christian really should not favor any form of abortion because of God's commands not even a compromise that may possibly allow for greater restrictions in the future. There can be no compromise where God's will is so clearly expressed. Thou shalt not kill.
_________________________
The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"

Top
#49067 - Friday, August 24, 2012 8:31 PM Re: Small Increments of Change [Re: chestnutmare]
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life

Registered: Sunday, April 8, 2001
Posts: 4182
Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
One of the things I don't want to do is judge Wilberforce. It could be that like all of us, this was an area that he was blind in.
In my own life, looking back I have had to change my thinking on certain issues as more light was shed on the issue. Some of those issues were very hard to change because they came at the expense of Christians and pastors whom I have a lot of respect for. Yet I knew that I answer to God not them despite what they might think of me as a result.
For instance, I turned away from Pentecostalism and some family members think I have backslidden as a result.
The same thing happened when I embraced Reformed theology.

Looking back at the article and the comments that followed, what I noticed from many of the people who agreed with the article, were people whom I know who are Reformed and normally I agree with.

Tom

Top
#49068 - Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:56 AM Re: Small Increments of Change [Re: Tom]
Pilgrim Online   content

Head Honcho

Registered: Tuesday, April 3, 2001
Posts: 13738
Loc: NH, USA
Perhaps Packer's article on Situation Ethics would be helpful to further understanding why compromise on moral issues is not only a bad choice but a sin. scratchchin
_________________________


simul iustus et peccator


Top



Who's Online
0 registered (), 14 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
zsdotson11, Elwin, JohannSA, Fran44, kril8150
872 Registered Users
Shout Box

July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
(Views)Popular Topics
Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved? 896882
Westminster Larger Catechism 663410
...The people miscalled Antinomians ? 617768
Roman Catholicism and salvation 509530
Double predestination 478048
The importance of going to church 425221
Gospel truth 408474
"Christ died in a general way for all."? 384876
Creation 333049
Continuity in Old and NT 322276