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#50042 - Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:27 PM In Jesus Name  
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
CaveBear Offline
Plebeian
CaveBear  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3
USA
From studying Scripture, I have come to the conclusion that when the Bible says we are to pray "in Jesus name", it is referring to the Holy Spirit whom the Father sent in Jesus name (John 14:26).

"Until now you have asked for nothing in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete." (John 16:24)

This verse makes perfect sense because the Holy Spirit had not come yet.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment" (Galatians 3:27)

Again, the Holy Spirit is referred to here, which is Living Water.

In my experience, I find so few Christians that actually understand this, provided I'm not having a "private interpretation". I find it silly to tack on "In Jesus name we pray. Amen." to every prayer that one prays... This error (again, provided I'm not having a private interpretation) seems to stem exclusively from the misunderstanding of what "in Jesus name" truly means. If this is indeed true, I want to be of service to God and help edify the church regarding this matter, but I definitely don't want to mislead anyone, so if anyone could tell me if I'm on the right track here, I'd much appreciate it :-)

#50043 - Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:45 PM Re: In Jesus Name [Re: CaveBear]  
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Pilgrim Offline
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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted By: CaveBear
From studying Scripture, I have come to the conclusion that when the Bible says we are to pray "in Jesus name", it is referring to the Holy Spirit whom the Father sent in Jesus name (John 14:26).

"Until now you have asked for nothing in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete." (John 16:24)

This verse makes perfect sense because the Holy Spirit had not come yet.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment" (Galatians 3:27)

Again, the Holy Spirit is referred to here, which is Living Water.

In my experience, I find so few Christians that actually understand this, provided I'm not having a "private interpretation". I find it silly to tack on "In Jesus name we pray. Amen." to every prayer that one prays... This error (again, provided I'm not having a private interpretation) seems to stem exclusively from the misunderstanding of what "in Jesus name" truly means. If this is indeed true, I want to be of service to God and help edify the church regarding this matter, but I definitely don't want to mislead anyone, so if anyone could tell me if I'm on the right track here, I'd much appreciate it :-)

Well, here's the deal... grin

The Holy Spirit was first given to the Church as a corporate gathering of God's people ruled by Elders and served by Deacons, gifted from on high for the teaching and edification of the saints. Thus, it would be indeed extremely foolish, at best, to not consult the writings of those who have gone before us who we know have held the "faith once delivered to the saints", e.g., Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Melanchthon, Owen, Edwards, Spurgeon, etc., etc. And, one would be remiss if they didn't consult the official confessions and catechisms of the Church as well to read what they had to say on the matter. Given that truism and bit of accepted wisdom I am going to assume that you have done just that, correct? And having done so, you have found that your view was widely held in the past, correct? But for some odd reason, the modern Church has departed from that view and the evoking of "in Jesus name" is a rather new and novel invention and you are desirous of bringing the Church back to the right practice of the forefathers and thus evoke the name of the Holy Spirit and not Jesus, correct?

Looking forward to your response.


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#50045 - Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:20 PM Re: In Jesus Name [Re: CaveBear]  
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CaveBear Offline
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Hi Pilgrim,

Thanks for answering my post. I was basically asking if it is indeed correct that having the Holy Spirit means that when you pray you are praying "in Jesus name"...

"“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

In the above verse we clearly have a case of unsaved people, since they obviously do not have the Holy Spirit as indicated by them being called "lawbreakers" by Jesus, which (I believe) also means they did not do anything "in Jesus name".

The thing is, I haven't been able to find much regarding this subject of what "in Jesus name" means, conclusively. I did come across a few Reformed articles on the matter, but I disagree in part with their conclusions, as what I've pointed out here, they did not point out or even cover. In other words, my question remains unanswered, even when reading Reformed articles on the matter :-(

I suppose, in essence, what I'm getting at also has to do with how we are to pray. Should we pray to Jesus if we're "in Jesus name" when we have the Holy Spirit? That would be praying to Jesus through Jesus, which sounds crazy to me. From what I did gather, we pray to the Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit, which does makes sense to me.

I've been a Christian for approx. three decades, but only just started reading the Bible, interpreting Scripture with Scripture, and became a Reformed Christian only in the past year.

Thanks again.

#50047 - Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:08 PM Re: In Jesus Name [Re: CaveBear]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Pilgrim Offline
Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,351
NH, USA
Originally Posted By: CaveBear
Hi Pilgrim,

Thanks for answering my post. I was basically asking if it is indeed correct that having the Holy Spirit means that when you pray you are praying "in Jesus name"...

"“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

In the above verse we clearly have a case of unsaved people, since they obviously do not have the Holy Spirit as indicated by them being called "lawbreakers" by Jesus, which (I believe) also means they did not do anything "in Jesus name".

The thing is, I haven't been able to find much regarding this subject of what "in Jesus name" means, conclusively. I did come across a few Reformed articles on the matter, but I disagree in part with their conclusions, as what I've pointed out here, they did not point out or even cover. In other words, my question remains unanswered, even when reading Reformed articles on the matter :-(

I suppose, in essence, what I'm getting at also has to do with how we are to pray. Should we pray to Jesus if we're "in Jesus name" when we have the Holy Spirit? That would be praying to Jesus through Jesus, which sounds crazy to me. From what I did gather, we pray to the Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit, which does makes sense to me.

I've been a Christian for approx. three decades, but only just started reading the Bible, interpreting Scripture with Scripture, and became a Reformed Christian only in the past year.

Thanks again.

I have to reject your premise for several reasons:

1. The plain reading of many texts that refer to such activities such as praying "in my [Jesus] name", casting out demons in Jesus name, etc., is teaching just that... to invoke the name of Jesus Christ and not the Holy Spirit. When one is baptized in the Church, it is to be done in the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which again grammatically and logically means that the Elder is to invoke the name of the triune God. However, you wrote:

Quote:
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment" (Galatians 3:27)

Again, the Holy Spirit is referred to here, which is Living Water.


But this conclusion is a huge leap without any biblical warrant. Paul is referring to water baptism and not Spirit baptism (cf. Acts 2:38; 8:36-38; 16:15, 31-33; Rom 6:3,4; Col 2:10-12; 1Pet 3:21; et al).


2. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone historically, especially in Reformed churches who has taught the view you are espousing. nope It would be rather strange to suggest that the overwhelming majority of Christians throughout history have somehow gotten this wrong... until now, wouldn't you agree? scratchchin

Allow me to quote, at length, what renowned exegete William Hendriksen writes on Galatians 3:27:

Quote:
Let no one deny that in vital union with Christ all believers, Gentiles as well as Jews, are immediately sons of God, true Christians. Let no one deceive the Galatians into thinking that in order to become Christians they must first become Jews. Says Paul: For as many of y o u as were baptized into (union with) Christ have put on Christ. The "in Christ" relationship, therefore, expressed in verse 26 and here repeated in slightly altered form, is all that matters. And that holds for anyone, for the words "as many as" here in verse 27 are as wide in scope as is "all" (that is, "all believers") in verse 26. It should not be any matter of controversy that "being baptized into (union with) Christ" means more than being baptized with water, for surely not all those who were the objects of the outward administration of this sacrament have actually "put on Christ." The apostle is speaking, therefore, not about the merely outward administration of baptism, as if some magical healing power adhered to it, but about the sign and seal in conjunction with that which is signified and sealed. All those, then, who by means of their baptism have truly laid aside, in principle, their garment of sin, and have truly been decked with the robe of Christ's righteousness, having thus been buried with him and raised with him, have put on Christ (cf. Rom. 5:3ff; 13:14; Col. 2:12,13). In Christ they have risen to newness of life. They have become united with him in the sense that he is the Life of their life, the Light of their light, the Strength of their strength. And this, let it be stressed once again, is true of them all, regardless of outward differences, for the apostle continues: ... verse 28


My own exegesis of this passage and my own understanding of what it means to pray "in Jesus name", etc. is in full accord with what the Church has believed and taught for 2 millennium. To disagree, which you are certainly free, in one sense, to do puts the onus upon you to show where hundreds of thousands of believing Christians, pastors and teachers have erred. Is it possible this is the case that everyone crossing denominational lines has missed this truth and God has raised you up to expose the error and that the Church needs to repent of its error and change its teaching and practice? Theoretically, I suppose this is remotely possible. But I wouldn't count on it. evilgrin


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