The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Restoration

Hi, I'm new to this forum but have found the material very interesting and sometimes helpful in developing my own understanding of the Scriptures but in all the discussions and papers available to read on the site here regarding the different views about the Millennium this verse in Isaiah 65 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." is never explained.
I do believe that Christ died once for all and that there can never be a return to the OT style sacrificial system that could deal with peoples sins because that is what the Bible teaches us. Nevertheless this verse and others (e.g Is 11.8)do seem to suggest that there is going to be a period in Earth's history following this one where death still reigns, people however live far longer (as they in fact did pre- and just post flood)and the natural enmity between the animals will cease, yet sin still exists.So, a period of partial restoration but not total, so not heaven.

Many writers of pieces that are critical of the Dispensational view don't seem to appreciate that it is possible for God, at a time of His choosing, to remember promises made to His ancient people and at the same time do for them as a nation what He has done for us gentiles and Jews who believe during this present time and birth in them the desire to know God and enable them to come to know Him through Christ.

I am not persuaded at all by the argument that Satan is currently bound and unable to deceive the Nations.
I am more persuaded by the argument that a period will come when he will be bound and his evil influence will not be felt but the very much less than good influences of peoples own hearts will be left to influence events (all in accordance with the will of God of course). The world will see then that even with Satan out of the way, man is still not able to come close to God and that salvation and true righteousness will still only be found through faith in Jesus.

I also struggle to reconcile the different treatments Jesus meted out to the disciples if there is to be no physical restoration of Israel. I am thinking of Peter being told "Get behind me, Satan" when he demonstrated a lack of understanding about what was going on and Jesus reply to the disciples who asked after Christ's ressurection "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1.6 Surely, they meant a physical restoration job, not a spiritual one? If they did mean a physical one, Jesus would have known, and the question would have elicited a different response than the one He gave, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power", if it wasn't to be physical.

So when, do people think, was or will be the fulfilment of verses Is 11.8 and 65.20

Or, if someone can suggest other threads to go to for answers to this that would be great.


Also, some versions of the KJV have what I think are paragraph marks in them but who put those there and are they useful for rightly dividing the verses and passages?

11:8 When, However, is this change to appear? In answer it should be noted that Isaiah has emphasized the fact that the Messiah is the Prince of Peace. When the Messiah has completed His Messianic work, peace is introduced into the hearts of men, and insofar as men are true to the principles of peace which they have received from the Messiah, so far do the blessings herein depicted obtain. In its fullness, however, this condition will not be realized until the earth is covered with the knowledge of the Lord, and that condition will only obtain in the new heavens and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. "Whenever there is sin," says Bracker, "there is lack of peace. Only where righteousness reigns, is there peace." For this reason the condition herein described cannot apply to a supposed millennium. Advocates of a millennial theory maintain that even during the millennium there is sin, for after the millennium the nations will again gather for battle. The picture before us, however, is one in which there is no sin, but in which the fullest manifestation of peace is to be seen. We read these words with grateful hearts for we know that one day we too shall enjoy these blessings in their fullest sense.

Now as to 65:20...
The CONTEXT is set in v. 17, "For behold! I am about to create new heavens and a new earth and the former things shall not be remembered, and they shall not come up upon the heart. 18 But rejoice and be glad unto eternity in that which I am about to create for I am about to create Jerusalem a joy, and her people a rejoicing.

Thus, what follows pertains to the "new heaven and new earth" and they shall continue for "eternity", in contrast to a fixed time of 1000 years.

v. 20 The description now introduces particulars of the Messianic kingdom, stressing the longevity of those who will belong to that kingdom. From there may refer to Jerusalem, the thought being that There will not be from there (i.e., taken away from there by death) a suckling with respect to days. Thus, death will not take away from there (i.e. from the Jerusalem of the Messianic age) one who is merely a suckling child as death is now wont to do. Nor will the elderly man who has not yet lived out the full span of life meted to him be taken away by death as is now the case.

In the second part of the verse the opposite truth is express. The youth who is one hundred years old will die, i.e., when one dies at the age of one hundred, he shall be regarded as merely a youth, the implication being that he had yet far more life to live. Likewise, when death cuts of a sinful man, it does so when he has lived a hundred years. Men will die, and death is a curse and when that curse comes as a punishment for sin, as it does even to God's people, the sinner will be a hundred years old. Thus, one of the blessings of the new age is that of longevity. Basic to this promise is probably the conception already expressed in Genesis 53. The conditions of Paradise are to be restored, but the new age will surpass Paradise.

I get the impression that you have confined your reading of things on The Highway to just this Board. IF that is correct, then I would like to refer you to the main website HERE, where you will find 1600+ books, articles and sermons on varied subjects. More specifically, we have a whole section dedicated to Eschatology which you can find HERE.

Thanks Pilgrim.
I don't understand what you mean when you wrote,"v. 20 The description now introduces particulars of the Messianic kingdom, stressing the longevity of those who will belong to that kingdom. From there may refer to Jerusalem, the thought being that There will not be from there (i.e., taken away from there by death) a suckling with respect to days. Thus, death will not take away from there (i.e. from the Jerusalem of the Messianic age) one who is merely a suckling child as death is now wont to do. Nor will the elderly man who has not yet lived out the full span of life meted to him be taken away by death as is now the case.

In the second part of the verse the opposite truth is express. The youth who is one hundred years old will die, i.e., when one dies at the age of one hundred, he shall be regarded as merely a youth, the implication being that he had yet far more life to live. Likewise, when death cuts of a sinful man, it does so when he has lived a hundred years. Men will die, and death is a curse and when that curse comes as a punishment for sin, as it does even to God's people, the sinner will be a hundred years old. Thus, one of the blessings of the new age is that of longevity. Basic to this promise is probably the conception already expressed in Genesis 53. The conditions of Paradise are to be restored, but the new age will surpass Paradise."

The Messianic Kingdom you say the passage refers to in your first paragraph presumably is not yet because these conditions do not prevail now, but neither can they be taken to refer to heaven because there is no death in heaven. Could you explain further?

Thanks.

The second part is emphasizing the first part by showing what will NOT be existent, but now is, in the Messianic kingdom, aka: New Heaven and New Earth.

As I tried to make clear, the CONTEXT establishes 'time' of the particulars, i.e., what Isaiah through the Spirit wrote was in regard to the eternal state. Thus one's interpretation and understanding must be governed by such. There is no death in the New Earth because there is no sin.