Donations for the month of March


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 14,450
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,781
Posts54,881
Members974
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,447
Tom 4,516
chestnutmare 3,320
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,865
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 4
John_C 1
Recent Posts
1 Cor. 6:9-11
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:02 PM
Change in NRSVue text note on 1 John 5:7
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:07 AM
Is the church in crisis
by John_C - Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:52 AM
Jordan Peterson ordered to take sensitivity training
by Tom - Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:00 PM
Should Creeds be read in Church?
by Pilgrim - Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:30 AM
Do Christians have Dual Personalities: Peace & Wretchedness?
by DiscipleEddie - Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:15 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#51200 Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
John_C Offline OP
Permanent Resident
OP Offline
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
What happened to the OT saints souls after they died? I'm thinking their souls went directly to Heaven, just as NT believers. I've heard recently that OT believers had to wait until Christ's shed blood, otherwise, why would the blood be necessary.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #51201 Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by John_C
What happened to the OT saints souls after they died? I'm thinking their souls went directly to Heaven upon their death, just as NT believers. I've heard recently that OT believers had to wait until Christ's shed blood, otherwise, why would the blood be necessary.
I don't think it can be doubted that ALL true believers (the elect) are whisked immediately to 'heaven' upon their demise, that half-way station, if you will excuse the phrase, where they await Christ's second and final return... and then the consummation where all will receive their immortal bodies and live on the New Earth. The exception is, of course, those who are still alive on earth when Christ returns who shall not experience physical death, but nonetheless, are also taken into heaven on that final day.

Christ's atoning sacrifice was retroactive and since salvation has been eternally determined by God the OT saints were actually and completely redeemed (saved) when they put their Spirit-wrought faith in the yet-to-come Messiah; the Lord Christ. Although it is a parable, the pericope of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" does refer to Abraham being in heaven and that the beggar Lazarus was met by Abraham but the rich man was found in hell.

IF this was not true, then what happened to the souls of the OT saints when they died? Did this individual(s) propose some kind of purgatory or perhaps soul sleep (Advent Christian doctrine), or what?


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #51203 Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
John_C Offline OP
Permanent Resident
OP Offline
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
IF this was not true, then what happened to the souls of the OT saints when they died? Did this individual(s) propose some kind of purgatory or perhaps soul sleep (Advent Christian doctrine), or what?

A discussion on what was meant by 'Jesus descended into Hell'. A pastor who is quasi-Reformed ministering in the Evangelical Free Church made these comments:

Quote
[/quote]If by "hell" we mean that Christ descended to where the spirits of the righteous dead lived, waiting for their Savior to come get them, then I'm fine. If by "hell" it means "that place of fiery torment", then it's wrong.
Quote

When I asked the question regarding OT saints souls going immediately to Heaven after death, this was is answer.

Quote
I believe the OT saints had to wait until the blood of Christ's redemption was shed. The merit of his blood then cleansed the heavenly temple. He obtained redemption in history (not eternity), which us why the OT saints could not be perfected without us. I'll go look up that verse.
Quote

When another person ask 'did that place changed after Jesus did His work, he answered,

Quote
It's more of an inference. I've noticed that OT visions of heaven seem to only show angels, NT visions show human beings. The OT saints could not be "made perfect" without usurp says somewhere in Hebrews.[quote]



John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #51206 Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
The question as to whether the OT saints were actually saved before the crucifixion/resurrection of Christ is not really a debatable issue. The Bible is quite clear on the matter. One of the clearest statements that OT saints were in fact 'saved', 'justified' can be found in Romans 4:1-25. And James refers to the justification of Abraham and Rahab as well in James 4:21-26.

One is saved by abandoning any and all form of self-righteousness and relying wholly upon the righteousness of another; the Christ. The entire sacrificial system of the OT demonstrated the impossibility of anyone gaining a right standing with God through works of the law AND that one was to come from God who would accomplish all that was required in their behalf. One is saved through faith by grace in the PERSON of Christ, known either through types and shadows or by the inspired written record of Christ. All who believe in Christ are referred to as Abraham's children for they possess that necessary saving faith which Abraham had centuries before the incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection. Abraham was no less justified at the very moment he believed God than someone who believed on Christ after His resurrection.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 84 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,506,457 Gospel truth