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Spurgeon's Calvinism #51526
Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:39 PM
Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,750
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline OP

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John_C  Offline OP

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I read where Charles Spurgeon, though identifying himself as a strong Calvinist, denied that regeneration preceded faith. In fact, he said those believing that regeneration preceded faith were extreme Calvinists (Hyper). Since Spurgeon held that view, I wonder if run-of-the-mill Calvinism today would have been thought of as Hyper back in the 1800s. Today, almost all Calvinists will affirm that regeneration precedes faith, but was that true in previous times?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51527
Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:32 PM
Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:32 PM
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chestnutmare Offline
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chestnutmare  Offline
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John?

Where did you hear this? Please provide some sort of citation for this. I consider it utter nonsense. He was confessional and all of the confessions affirm that regeneration precedes faith. So, I want to know just who is telling you this. Are you on some group or forum, or is it your church that is teaching this? We have lots of articles by Spurgeon you could look at and gain proof of this. Further, I would say that only a consistent (true) Calvinist will always affirm that regeneration precedes faith. After all John, there is no life in a cemetery and since all of mankind are dead in their sin, there is no chance of them having faith apart from regeneration. 1John 1:10


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: chestnutmare] #51529
Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:07 PM
Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:07 PM
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John_C Offline OP

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John_C  Offline OP

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On a forum, I'm trying to receive permission to quote him directly.

I did googled 'Spurgeon on Faith preceding Regeneration, and received several links, including one of his sermons.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51530
Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:23 AM
Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted By: John_C
On a forum, I'm trying to receive permission to quote him directly.

I did googled 'Spurgeon on Faith preceding Regeneration, and received several links, including one of his sermons.

All I can tell you John is that although I have not read EVERY sermon nor EVERY book that Spurgeon wrote I have read a considerable amount of his writings. And, I can, without reservation, tell you that Spurgeon was true to biblical Calvinism, particularly in the matter of the "Ordo Salutis". In many places, either directly, implication or necessary logic, Spurgeon affirms that regeneration precedes faith, or to put it another way, faith is the fruit of regeneration.

It would have been helpful if you would have at least provided a couple of links to the material you found which allegedly shows that Spurgeon believed that faith precedes regeneration. But, I simply took your phrase which you wrote you used on Google and one of the very first results was a sermon No. 979 by Spurgeon, "Faith and Regeneration", Delivered on Lord's-day Morning, March 5th, 1871, where he CLEARLY said that faith is evidence of regeneration... which certainly is an affirmation that regeneration precedes faith.

You should realize that we are living in a day when spurious men/women have a need to discredit the truth by making false accusations concerning notable Calvinists; even Calvin himself, e.g., claiming that Calvin held to universal atonement vs. definite atonement (cf. R.T. Kendall's Calvin and English Calvinism to 1649, and refuted by Paul Helm in his Calvin and the Calvinists). R.J. Rice also went to great pains to edit many of Spurgeon's sermons and publish them in a book. What he did was to remove any and all places from those sermons that showed Spurgeon held to biblical Calvinism. In short, Rice made Spurgeon out to be an Arminian/semi-Pelagian. So, it is important to CONSIDER THE SOURCE carefully before jumping to any conclusions about such claims. In fact, when you hear/read such claims you should automatically become very suspicious of not only the claim but the motive behind it. wink


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Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51531
Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 PM
Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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John
Out of curiosity, would one of the sources being quoted from be Dave Hunt?
A few years ago I had a debate with several Arminians concerning their cllaim that Spurgeon was an Arminian and their main source was Dave Hunt.
I have had more fruitful conversations talking with a wall than that debate.
They told me that I protest too much, and because of that Hunt must be right.
They were not interested in facts, they had their minds already made up.
Tom

Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51532
Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:49 AM
Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:49 AM
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Posts: 1,750
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline OP

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John_C  Offline OP

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No. The poster removed the post from the forum. So, I haven't followed up. It could be that he found his sources to be spurious or just did not want to pursue the argument.

The poster would not be a fan of Dave Hunt, as he sees himself much closer to the Reformed camp, and a Calvinist in his soteriology.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51533
Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:27 AM
Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,378
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Methinks the OP made a wise choice in removing his post for whatever reason. To continue with the discussion would have been a lose-lose situation. grin


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: John_C] #51537
Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:50 PM
Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 187
Devon, England
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grace2U Offline
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There is a massive new biography of Spurgeon by Tom Nettles, Living by Revealed Truth. It is well worth reading as it touches upon every aspect of the Great Man's life and theology.
Nettles reveals Spurgeon as an entirely orthodox Calvinist. He believed absolutely in Particular Redemption, but he also believed, in common with the early Particular Baptists like Keach and Bunyan, that the sinner's warrant to come to Christ is not that he believes that he is elect, but that he is a sinner and Christ saves such and bids them come to Him.

One of his favourite verses was John 6:37. 'The one who cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.'Therefore he would bid all and sundry to come to Christ, assuring them that He would not turn them away. But at the same time he understood and preached that all those who came were those whom the Father had given to the Son in eternity and drawn to Him in time.

If the Nettles book is too vast and forbidding, The Forgotten Spurgeon by Iain Murray is very good and much shorter (and cheaper).


Itinerant Preacher & Bible Teacher in Merrie England.
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Re: Spurgeon's Calvinism [Re: grace2U] #51544
Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:58 PM
Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,399
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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Thanks for the book recommendations.
I have read a fair amount about Spurgeon, as well I have read quite a few of his articles and found among many other things, that he wrote and spoke against "Hyper-Calvinism" almost as much as did against Arminianism.
I mention this, mainly because there are many people who because they didn't read the full context of what he was talking about, came to the wrong conclusion that Spurgeon was not a Calvinist.
Kind of funny in a way; because lots of Arminians speak of Spurgeon as though he was a hero of theirs. Yet they speak of Calvinism as though it is heresy.
Tom


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