The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Where did the Baptist originate

I was having a conversation with someone on Facebook and the subject came up about the origin of the Baptist,...my question is where did they as a group come from? Are they the offshoot of the Particular Baptist, and where they part of the Reformation?

Look HERE

Some Baptists claim that they originated from John the Baptist and therefore they are the true religion. However, there are quite a number of Baptists who are members here and it would be interesting to read what they have to say in regard to your question.

Thank you, I as well have heard that some Baptist make the claim that they are of the ''true religion'' based on or from the link with John the Baptizer, I heard as well that there was no need to be reformed because they were before the Reformation, thus they had no need, but they embrace the title ''Reformed Baptist'' and the distinctive doctrines of grace.

Thanks for the link. We are indeed a very diverse group.
I consider myself a Reformed Baptist, mainly because in many respects I can identify with Reformed teaching more than I can with other Baptists.
Among those Baptist who embrace the doctrines of Grace, there are those who get angry when they are referred to as "reformed". Instead they would rather be known as Particular Baptists.
I have also ran into Baptists that insist Baptists are not "Protestants". However, the ones I met were Arminian in their theology.
Like any Christian denomination, they come from different perspectives, that range from liberal to very conservative.

I'm going to be true to my reputation of being a nitpicker! Do these Baptists you referred to really hold to ARMINIAN theology? Or, are they in fact SEMI-PELAGIAN in their theology? I have this uncontrollable need to make this distinction because there is a significant difference between the two despite the similarity between them that they are both in serious error. As I have stated on this board myriad times, I think one would be hard-pressed to find many true historic Arminians today, i.e., those that would embrace the doctrines espoused by Arminius and his followers and which were submitted in the Remonstrance at the Synod of Dordt.

What is true about there being a great variety of theological positions and practices among Baptists holds true within modern Presbyterianism as well.

The funny thing about this is when I wrote ""Arminian", I wondered whether or not I should use the correct term. Yet, mainly because most say Arminian, I decided on using it rather than the correct term.
You are of course correct.

Tom

Although I identify myself as a Baptist, there are issues that I think are not worth discussing.
I believe the claim that Baptists are descendants of John the Baptist is actually arigantly saying that no other denomination can make that claim. I would however say that all true Christians find their roots way before the Reformation.
Tom

I believe that we can all trace our roots especially as being of the Reformed camp to the time of the Reformation, and historically to the teachings of Augustine, but I have heard and read from a site, I think from an old Boice site, that they are proud to say that they do not come out of the Reformation, I would have to see if I have this quote in my bookmarks,...

Now I remember where I read that quote on Baptist not being from the Reformational period, it was from the site The Reformed Reader, and the quote was from the great C.H. Spurgeon,.... We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther and Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel under ground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men.

—Charles H. Spurgeon

Ah..... spoken like a true Baptist! But unfortunately, Spurgeon's statement is most surely bias, exclusionary and without warrant. But to run with his statement that Baptists "...have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves." it isn't enough to make the claim that "Baptists are the original Christians.", for it seems to me that Adam was the original Christian from whom the godly seed came, i.e., those predestinated to salvation in Christ. The true Church began with Adam NOT with John the Baptist nor the Apostles. Luke speaks of the church within the nation of Israel (cf. Acts 7:38; and likewise Paul in Gal 3:29), not to mention the myriad occurrences of the Hebrew references in the OT which use synonyms of "church" when speaking of God's people, e.g., assembly, congregation, etc. Here's a good article on the subject of the church in the Old Testament, The Church and Israel in the Old Testament.

So, Spurgeon wasn't infallible after all.

Haha, my goodness... I'm embarrassed that so many Baptists can be so arrogant as to claim roots preceding the Reformation.

Refer to the London Baptist Confession and you find it identical to the Westminster Confession except for:

The hermeneutic, "contained in" in place of "deduced from;"

The qualification and mode of water baptism, and

Church polity, though many Baptist churches including mine are basically Presbyterian (we have multiple elders and deacons). Most early Baptists were indeed Reformed and not ashamed of the Reformation. There have been semi-Pelagians among us from the start, and even Charismatics among us from the early days - but the same is true of most denominations even with deep roots in the Reformation.

-Robin

Robin
Years ago I came upon that quote by Spurgeon on the Reformed Reader site myself.
As much as I am a big fan of Spurgeon, like all Christians all quotes like that just prove he was human and as such was prone to error.
I don't know the full context of why Spurgeon said those things, but it would not surprise me to learn that he was overreacting to an attack against Baptists.
What I do love about Spurgeon however is his uncompromising love of the Lord and His Word. That uncompromising love caused him to get a lot of enemies even among his own denomination, in what came to be known as "the downgrade contravercy".
We as Christians stand on the shoulders of men like Luther, Calvin, Owen, Spurgeon, etc..., yet we must always remember that these men all have feet of clay like the rest of us.
Tom

Right you are Pilgrim
For some reason what you said reminded me of Covanent Theology and the charge that it is "Replacement Theology".
The fact is no knowledgable person who holds to CT, whether Paedo or Credo would say that the Church replaced Israel. For all in Christ whether National Israelite or Gentile are the true Israel of God, otherwise known as "the Church".
Not sure if I needed to add this aspect to the discussion, but just sayin.
Tom

Robin,

You are so right about this as many Baptists are want to trace their roots back to the Anabaptist which would put then in the same lineage of the Mennonite grouping.

Another angle to this in my mind is where are their historical Bible translations. I don't think they have any, but one would think if they were totally apart from the Reformation then they would. Hopefully, they do not claim Hus, Wycliffe, and Tyndale as belonging to them.

Anyway, when I was young we heard of churches being called Primitive Baptists, Hard Shell Baptists, etc and I never knew what was meant by those names.

There is an article HERE that explains what Primitive (Hard Shell) Baptists are and their history, which btw originated in the 1800s.