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Joyce Meyer #51925
Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:06 PM
Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Hi
Recently I was having a Facebook conversation warning some of the dangers of the Word of Faith Movement. In particular I was focusing on Joyce Meyer, because she was the person mentioned.
Not surprisingly I received several rebukes, such as the following.
"He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Of course this is from the story of the woman caught in adultery.

When I read their rebuke of me, I was reminded of an article (or was it a thread on the Highway?)quite some ago that I thought might be worth saying to that individual.
I did a search, but couldn't find what I was looking for.
Can you point me to it and perhaps comment?

Thanks
Tom

Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51926
Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:47 AM
Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,920
NH
chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
chestnutmare  Offline
Annie Oakley
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Posts: 2,920
NH
Did you do a search on the Board Tom? Remember to set the parameters so that you cover at least 10 years. If that doesn't work, then you can go on the web site and do a search there which will bring up anything older than 10 years. Hope that helps.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51927
Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:40 AM
Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
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Yes I did a search before I started this thread, using the parameters you mentioned.
I came up empty.

Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51928
Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:00 AM
Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
Florida
R
Robin Offline
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I used to hear this a lot from Charismatics who warned me sternly about "judging others." If wasn't "touch not the Lord's anointed," it was "judge not lest ye be judged."

Look for articles about appropriate judgment. We don't judge people, but we are to judge their teachings, their doctrines, their "fruit."

Joyce Meyer's teachings are those of "seducing spirits." They are "doctrines of demons (1st Timothy 4:1)." We judge that to be the case by comparing those teachings with Scripture, not by trying to judge the teacher's heart and intent.

Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Robin] #51929
Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:26 AM
Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Robin
I used to hear this a lot from Charismatics who warned me sternly about "judging others." If wasn't "touch not the Lord's anointed," it was "judge not lest ye be judged."

Look for articles about appropriate judgment. We don't judge people, but we are to judge their teachings, their doctrines, their "fruit."

Joyce Meyer's teachings are those of "seducing spirits." They are "doctrines of demons (1st Timothy 4:1)." We judge that to be the case by comparing those teachings with Scripture, not by trying to judge the teacher's heart and intent.

1. There are two articles on The Highway that deal with "appropriate judgment", as you put it. grin

- Judging: The Christian's Duty by Doug Kuiper
- Is It Right to Judge? by Franklin G. Huling

2. Although I think both authors are correct in 90%+ what they write, I must disagree with their view, either clearly stated or implied, that a person's "faith" cannot be judged. This is a logical fallacy if it is true, which it certainly is, that you will know THEM by their fruits (Matt 7:16,20). It is inescapable that one is determining one's spiritual state to some degree by examining their doctrine and/or life. The context is in determining WHO one is by that which that person owns, e.g., is the person a false prophet/teacher? And of such one is to avoid and not entertain in any way. The church must not only determine one's spiritual state but to even make a pronouncement and act on their judgment in regard to those who profess to be in Christ; exoneration or condemnation through discipline and even excommunication; removal of the individual with the judgment that the person's profession is false. It is not an ETERNAL pronouncement, but a temporal one which is binding as long as the individual remains unrepentant. Too often false teachers, heretics are given a free pass by the church, but the individual believer is not under any obligation to abide by that decision even if comes from the highest authority of the church; Synodical or General Assembly. We are individuals called by God to truth and holiness must embrace the truth of God's Word and not err in following the false judgments of men regardless of what office they hold.

3. Thus, I believe it is at best inconsistent to judge Joyce Meyer's teaching as totally unbiblical yet to not conclude that if she is unregenerate, whether she truly believes what she is teaching or she is using those false teachings as a way to gain financially and/or in esteem.



Quote:
For there is some danger of falling into a soft and effeminate Christianity, under the plea of a lofty and ethereal theology. Christianity was born for endurance; not an exotic, but a hardy plant, braced by the keen wind; not languid, nor childish, nor cowardly. It walks with strong step and erect frame; it is kindly, but firm; it is gentle, but honest; it is calm, but not facile; obliging, but not imbecile; decided, but not churlish. It does not fear to speak the stern word of condemnation against error, nor to raise its voice against surrounding evils, under the pretext it is not of this world; it does not shrink from giving honest reproof; lest it come under the charge of displaying an unchristian spirit. It calls sin sin, on whomsoever it is found, and would rather risk the accusation of being actuated by a bad spirit than not discharge an explicit duty. Let us not misjudge strong words used in honest controversy. Out of the heat a viper may come forth; but we shake it off and feel no harm. The religion of both Old and New Testaments is marked by fervent outspoken testimonies against evil. To speak smooth things in such a case may be sentimentalism, but it is not Christianity. It is a betrayal of the cause of truth and righteousness. If anyone should be frank, manly, honest, cheerful (I do not say blunt or rude, for a Christian must be courteous and polite); it is he who has tasted that the Lord is gracious, and is looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God. I know that charity covereth a multitude of sins; but it does not call evil good, because a good man has done it; it does not excuse inconsistencies, because the inconsistent brother has a high name and a fervent spirit; crookedness and worldliness are still crookedness and worldliness, though exhibited in one who seems to have reached no common height of attainment. HORATIUS BONAR (1808-1889)


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Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51930
Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:01 PM
Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,769
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline

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Back in 2008 there were a lot of posts on Joyce Meyer. Just do a search on 'Joyce Meyer'


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51931
Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:07 PM
Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,920
NH
chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
chestnutmare  Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,920
NH
Tom, since I had remembered some previous discussion on Joyce Meyer, I too did a search using "Meyer" and giving it ten years for search results. I came up with this. Perhaps it might be helpful to you.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Robin] #51932
Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:14 AM
Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Robin

Your post is near to what I was looking for. I wasn't being clear enough. I wasn't trying to focus on Joyce Meyer, I was focusing on the fact that I was told: "whoever is without sin cast the first stone." It appears that some people believe that since there isn't anybody that does not sin, that nobody should be speaking against false teachers such as Joyce Meyers.

I know this is the old argument about misinterpreting the Bible's teaching on judging. However, I believe I read in the Highway somewhere in the past, an argument showing how silly that particular argument really is.

Tom

Re: Joyce Meyer [Re: Tom] #51974
Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:26 AM
Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,527
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
More on Joyce Meyer
Last weekend, while visiting my elderly mom over coffee. She was humming and hawing at whether to say something to me. She very slowly began to very apologetically telling me, I should never call anyone a heretic. I let her say what was on her mind before I said anything, then briefly told her why I had to disagree with her. I gave her the last word; which basically was that she believes that Christians grieve the Lord when we talk that way about our brothers and sisters in the Lord.
I decided it best to not saying anything else, if I wanted our time together to remain pleasant.
Yet, I would ask others to pray for my mom, and other family members who believe that way. My mother is a peace maker, who usually only says things like this if she believe she needs to.

Tom


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