The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Packers Resolutions

I talk and witness to people from all religious backgrounds constantly. I do believe both yourself and Pilgrim have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick on this thread.<br><br>The point is that as a Protestant , I will not work with NON - CHRISTIANS regarding religious affairs.<br><br>Gerry has made this clearer.<br><br>I am leaving hyper-calvinism Joe, and how you came to that conclusion from reading my posts , you will have to explain to me please.<br><br>Yesterday , I witnessed to two J W's and ordered 20 copies of the New Testament in Russian which a friend will take to Moscow and sent several sound books to folk in the USA.<br>If this is hyper-calvinism then I'm guilty as charged .<br><br>howard

Great posts Gerry. You understand clearly - IMHO.<br><br>Those folk who compiled the WCF would have been horrified that Protestants could sign such a document. <br><br>howard

Wes , you can also explain to me what my protectionist mentality is too please.<br><br>howard

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Yesterday , I witnessed to two J W's and ordered 20 copies of the New Testament in Russian which a friend will take to Moscow and sent several sound books to folk in the USA. If this is hyper-calvinism then I'm guilty as charged.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Praise God!!! But would you WORK with these same people in a soup kitchen to feed the poor and then be a witness, a missionary, an evangelist [color:red]to both</font color=red> the JWs and these others? If not then you have already limited your evangelism efforts and thus the Gospel itself--a hyper view. The Bible preaches limited atonement, not limited evangelism. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img]<br><br>A saint once said:<br><br><blockquote>The principle that operates here is that the rule of our duty and the measure of our responsibility is God’s revealed will of precept, and not His hidden will of event. We are to order our lives by the light of His law, not by our guesses about His plan.</blockquote> By your [color:red]guesses</font color=red> you have decided that the "other denominational groups" are unworthy of your [color:red]relationship evangelistic</font color=red> efforts. If you are only willing to preach AT people then I would say your evangelism is incorrect. There is a difference in preaching AT someone and being entitled to share WITH someone. Are you willing to [color:red]build relationships with those of the opposite faith</font color=red> (and there are several ways to do this) so you may show them the truth? I am NOT saying to embrace their beliefs, but I am saying that you and Gerry need to embrace them as people that God has made in His own image and thus they are worthy of God's "love" and re-consideration of your methodological approach(s).<br><br> <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] I will not work with NON - CHRISTIANS regarding religious affairs.</font><hr></blockquote><p> In the "common" workplace is EVERYONE a Christian that one would normally work with, or is there some diversity? Christians work EVERYDAY with non-Christians toward some "goal" they have in common!! They may share the same type of "work" (one works for God's glory, the other to justify himself), but they hold to and would share different Gospels (the other not being a Gospel at all). Be an evangelist!<br><br>You and Gerry both desire to limit evangelism to preaching AT instead of getting involved WITH these people and sharing with them from a relational perspective (read above). Building relationships is a key/core consideration in evangelism. That is one reason why the Scripture says AS YOU GO and NOT just GO in Matt 28. <br><br>Howard, I never said you were hyper, only "straying" that way. Re-read the post!!!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]In fact, these people would actually be an "object" of my evangelism efforts and not co-evangelists.</font><hr></blockquote><p> I agree, and I think this is where Howard and Gerry are missing it at and misunderstanding the Gospel. As I said in the earlier post, I would "be a witness, a missionary, an evangelist [color:red]to both</font color=red> the JWs and these others," [color:red]not</font color=red> that I would enjoin the Biblical Gospel with a JW and then attempt to evangelize the others. In other words, I could serve food to a homeless man standing beside a JW doing the same thing, but the Gospel I presented [color:red]would not be enjoined</font color=red> to the JW who was serving the food with me, as I would be attempting to evangelize [color:red]both</font color=red> him and the homeless man. Just because someone stands beside a JW in "working" (i.e. serving a homeless man) does not mean he shares the JWs beliefs or that there should be an enjoining of a joint-presentation of the Gospel, which actually would be impossible (as you pointed out in your post). There are clear cut lines here. <br><br>The distinction I make between a missionary and evangelist is very small. Where I think there is "some difference" is that missionaries sometimes go where no visible CHURCH is or has been. Evangelists go and come back home as a normal walk, where missionaries go live permanently in the area to establish a church (church planter). Thus, this is a matter of semantics for me to distinguish the difference.

Hi Joe,<br><br>I am somewhat reluctant to participate in this very involved discussion. However there are a couple of points in your reply which are causing me some confusion. You mentioned a friend who attends a Mormon church, gave as an example attending a Catholic church, and spoke about missionaries "partaking" of another religion. Please forgive me if in ignorance I have misunderstood what you are saying, but I just wondered if you felt that in attempting to evangelise, it would be ok to participate in the worship of those other churches or religions.<br>Yours in Christ,<br>Brian.

Thanks for the clarification. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Please forgive me if in ignorance I have misunderstood what you are saying, but I just wondered if you felt that in attempting to evangelise, it would be ok to participate in the worship of those other churches or religions.</font><hr></blockquote><p> How could one WORSHIP in such a facility and to what god would they be worshiping. But, remember other denominational churches have CLASSES they teach on different days of the week and to attend these to "make relationships" to evangelize I think is ok for someone who "feels" called to this type ministry. Acts 16.

Thanks Joe.<br>Brian. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thankyou.gif" alt="thankyou" title="thankyou[/img]

While I did not see where any clarification was needed if the initial post was taken as a whole, I believe Howard and Gerry ONLY have to look at ONE clear example of the text of our Lord and Saviour to be set right on this issue--the 12 disciples. All 12 "worked" together towards similar goals, but JUDAS was among them (thus, they worked for different purposes). Judas could be any unbeliever. But the other 11 and the Lord himself were working with him and even ate with him. I might add that the other 11 deserted Christ at the Cross. Howard and Gerry how do you deal with the Bible on this issue? Is it possible for you to "work" with an unbeliever, but believe and have a different Gospel to share? Jesus did, will you? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]

Howard,<br><br>Please forgive me for not responding to your reply sooner. I've been away from home for a long weekend and thus away from my computer. I just returned..... [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flee.gif" alt="flee" title="flee[/img]<br><br>Let me be very plain in my reply to you so that you can understand what I think those who've been motivated to write and sign the ECT statement were trying to accomplish. In my opinion Packer and the others who have signed this document think we should have further discussions regarding mutual concerns without compromising what's been accomplished through the Reformation. I think the document addresses your concerns quite clearly without suggesting buying into Roman Catholicism. <br><br>To answer your question I'd like to use the example Pilgrim has brought into this discussion namely abortion rights. I referred to your protectionist mentality because you are unwilling to even stand side by side with someone who agrees with you about not killing babies because you're afraid someone will think you've compromised what you believe if the other person is not Reformed. I want you to know that I would even be willing to stand side by side with a pagan who believes killing babies is wrong to try to defend the lives of the unborn. I don't think it needs to be a religious thing at all! Most civilized people who believe killing is wrong can agree with each other on this without even getting into religions discussions. <br><br>The fact that you won't participate with someone who doesn't embrace your beliefs says a lot about you. <br><br><br>Wes

Wes , now you must tell all how this says a lot about me.<br><br>Your insight into my christian walk should make interesting reading.<br><br>howard

Howard,<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]...now you must tell all how this says a lot about me.<br><br>Your insight into my christian walk should make interesting reading.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Howard you've already done that. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/sad.gif" alt="sad" title="sad[/img]<br><br><br>Wes<br>

Wes , I fail to see your reasoning sir. Kindly explain what my christian walk consists of.<br><br>Or would you care to reject me as a heretic ?<br><br>howard <br><br>