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Revelation 22:19 #5215
Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:35 AM
Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:35 AM

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I was asked today by an arminian dispy chap about the possibility of losing salvation as he talked over Revelation 22:19. I gave him my opinion on the verse and I must admit, upon reflection, that I can see he was'nt entirely satisfied with my reply.<br><br>My reply was akin to John Brown of Haddington , though not as eloquently put forth, :-<br><br> " God , by witholding all saving blessings from him, shall manifest that he never was elected , and shall cut him off from all the interest he professed, hoped or seemed, to have in his gracious purpose, true church, or inspired promises ."<br><br>How can one be in the book of Life only to be struck from it ?<br><br>Anyone care to help expound this some more ?<br><br>howard

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5216
Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 AM
Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 AM
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Howard,<br><br>There once was a man here who issued a challenge against Calvinism by using this one text. You can read through the rather lengthy thread which began here: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: Revelation 22:19 [Re: Pilgrim] #5217
Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:10 PM
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Thanks Pilgrim - thats going to be quite a read !<br><br>Any short - cuts ?<br><br>howard

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5218
Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:13 PM
Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:13 PM
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Any short - cuts ?</font><hr></blockquote><p>Speedreading? [Linked Image]<br>


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Re: Revelation 22:19 [Re: Pilgrim] #5219
Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:56 PM
Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:56 PM
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Philadelphia, PA
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Speedreading</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]


"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
Re: Revelation 22:19 [Re: carlos] #5220
Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:18 AM
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I have read a fair chunk of that thread and it seems that the above quote from Brown covers it quite well.<br><br>By the way, this arminian dispy chap is not trying to put-down calvinism, but is trying to escape arminianism. This verse has become a stumbling-block for him. His name is Timothy and he could sure do with your prayers.<br><br>howard

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5221
Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:43 PM
Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:43 PM
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Kingston, New York
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Timothy is in my prayers Howard.


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Re: Revelation 22:19 #5222
Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:56 PM
Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:56 PM
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Lenexa, Kansas
DaveVan3 Offline
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Howard: Speed reading would certainly help in reading the suggested threads, however I think Joe nailed it in one of the earlier comments when he said: <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]“Verse 19 is sometimes misunderstood as teaching loss of salvation, but in fact, it teaches loss of reward (I Cor 3:15 with I Cor 9:27).”</font><hr></blockquote><p> <br> <br>A closer look at Revelation verse 19 should clearly reveal to all who read what is taken away:--- his part! Not him! –his part. Otherwise know as his portion, his allotment, his share, yes, his reward. Look back at verse 12, “And behold I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man (believers) according as his work shall be.” Verse 14 also mentions having a “right to the tree of life”. This is also suggestive of fruit or rewards. There is some controversy whether the term in verse 19 should be “tree of life- - -or “book of life”. If “tree of life” or “book of life” then IMO rewards are the forfeiture. Either way- - - “book of life” OR “tree of life”- - - it’s still his part, portion, allotment, or reward that is in view. This is what the Christian can forfeit by the not heeding the warning in verse 19. If the Holy Spirit intended to convey loss of salvation, this would be a rather nebulous and isolated way of doing so.<br><br>It’s interesting to note that the same word translated “part” here in Rev 22:19 is rendered “portion” when the prodigal son requested an early inheritance of his “portion” (Luke 15: 12.) The prodigal son did not forfeit his “sonship” by riotous living but he did waste, squander, or forfeit his “part” or “portion” or "reward". <br><br><br><br><br>

Re: Revelation 22:19 [Re: DaveVan3] #5223
Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:46 AM
Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:46 AM
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Virginia
CovenantInBlood Offline
Persnickety Presbyterian
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Virginia
Okay, so the thread is a little old, but . . .<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]It’s interesting to note that the same word translated “part” here in Rev 22:19 is rendered “portion” when the prodigal son requested an early inheritance of his “portion” (Luke 15: 12.) The prodigal son did not forfeit his “sonship” by riotous living but he did waste, squander, or forfeit his “part” or “portion” or "reward".</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Ohhh! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/idea.gif" alt="idea" title="idea[/img] That makes so much sense.<br><br>


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: Revelation 22:19 #5224
Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:43 AM
Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:43 AM

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This problematic question would not come up if it would be admitted that Erasmus took this verse from the Vulgate. The "tree of life" is correct. If we follow Bullinger's line, Revelation is paired to Genesis, so to speak, then "tree of life" also is most appropriate. Undoubtedly, there is loss. Those who cling to the KJV to avoid "papal contamination" would do well to dig a bit deeper. And find a more noble motive.<br><br>In His infinite wisdom, God has made it impossible for those of a pure heart to worship a texttype. Indeed, some shall but not those that worship God. We do love those that labored with much difficulty to provide us with God's Word. They have had much heaped upon them by those claiming Christ.<br><br>The autographs are not here, gentlemen. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thewave.gif" alt="thewave" title="thewave[/img]

Last edited by ads; Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:32 AM.
Re: Revelation 22:19 #5225
Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:37 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Undoubtedly, there is loss.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Explain what you mean by this statement.

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5226
Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:36 AM
Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:36 AM

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Dear ADS<br><br>I must ADD, because I read your posts and for some reason I cannot understand what in the world you are saying. I know that I am 50 today, but what in the world are you talking about?<br><br>Thanks for the help!

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5227
Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:10 AM
Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:10 AM
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Posts: 13,436
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I know that I am 50 today.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Really? Today is your birthday? [Linked Image]<br><br><center>[Linked Image]</center>


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Happy Birthday Linda #5228
Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:24 AM
Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:24 AM

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Dear Linda:<br><br>May I wish you a happy and most blessed birthday. At 50, it becomes increasingly clear, as an experiential truth, as I'm sure you've already observed, that though we die daily, inwardly we, if we are His, are renewed day by day.<br><br>Gerry

Re: Revelation 22:19 #5229
Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:28 AM
Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:28 AM

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Happy birthday Linda !<br><br>God willing I shall be 43 on the morrow.<br><br>I cant understand ads either !<br><br>howard

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