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The Whole Christ.... #53437
Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:28 PM
Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:28 PM
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Anthony C. Offline OP
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Very Enlightening....
Quote


You may be shocked or at least mildly offended to find Ferguson agreeing with Thomas Boston’s criticism of Bunyan’s seemingly infallible allegory Pilgrim’s Progress. But hear him out. Boston thinks “Bunyan put the putting off of the burden too far off from the commencing of the pilgrimage. If he meant to describe what usually happens, he is right. But if he meant to show what ought to have happened, he was wrong. The cross should be right in front of the wicket gate” (59). Ferguson agrees, because “neither conviction nor the forsaking of sin constitutes the warrant for the gospel offer. Christ Himself is the warrant, since he is able to save all who come to Him. He is offered without conditions. We are to go straight to him! It is not necessary to have any money in order to be able to buy Christ” (60).

We need to get this right, because “Christians associate the character of God with the character of the preaching they hear—not only the substance and content of it but the spirit and atmosphere it conveys” (72)


https://www.9marks.org/article/book-review-the-whole-christ-by-sinclair-ferguson/

"He does not love us if we love Him. He loves us with an unconditional love; therefore, we should love Him. The message of the covenant is one of God’s totally free grace to His people. Of course, it calls for a response of total commitment. But notice the order: God’s covenant love is not the result of our commitment; it is the cause of it. The pattern is, "I will, therefore you should;" not "I will, but only if you will first." -SF

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:39 PM.
Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Anthony C.] #53438
Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:53 PM
Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:53 PM
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I heard Sinclair Ferguson give a lecture on the Marrow Controversy at a pastor's conference in 1979 in which he spoke of Bunyan's error and I had no doubt that he was correct.

Quote
Matthew 11:25-30 (ASV) At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight. All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal [him.] Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (emphasis mine)

We go to Christ as sinners who are incapable of making ourselves right or to rid ourselves of our sin or to make ourselves worthy. We need to first be justified in God's sight thus making us qualified for heaven and thereafter, it is God the Spirit who sanctifies us and prepares us for heaven. God loved those whom He desired to save from all eternity as those who needed to be redeemed from our hatred of God and the insatiable love of sin.


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Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Pilgrim] #53440
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 AM
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 AM
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We love Him because and due to Him first loving us, an giving Himself to die in our stead, and to being risen for our account...

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53442
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:26 AM
Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
We love Him because and due to Him first loving us, an giving Himself to die in our stead, and to being risen for our account...

I don't understand the relevance of what you wrote to one putting off the "burden" before coming to the cross?

And, out of curiosity, who does the "us", "our stead" and "our account" refer to in your statement?


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Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Pilgrim] #53446
Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:39 PM
Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:39 PM
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Those who are the saved, the ones whom Jesus died for...

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53450
Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:59 PM
Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
Those who are the saved, the ones whom Jesus died for...

Thanks for the reply on the second question, but how about the first?

I don't understand the relevance of what you wrote to one putting off the "burden" before coming to the cross?


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Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Pilgrim] #53465
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 AM
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 AM
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What did you mean by "the Burden?"

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53467
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:34 AM
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
What did you mean by "the Burden?"

GUILT.... the conviction of sin by which a regenerate man is brought to repentance and of which being united to Christ through faith is removed.


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Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Pilgrim] #53471
Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:55 AM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:55 AM
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I thought that there was now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, so would we be feeling guilty?

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53474
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:17 AM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:17 AM
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Anthony C. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
I thought that there was now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, so would we be feeling guilty?

Hi, the tricky thing about Bunyan's classic is he depicts common experience in addition to scriptural reality and lays it out allegorically..... I would say periodic guilt is something not foreign to many of the faithful

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:20 AM.
Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Anthony C.] #53480
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:55 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:55 PM
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We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53481
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:31 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:31 PM
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Anthony C. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?

Not for long.... We should not.... But with new life sometimes old sins & habits die hard.... Of course the struggle can be subdued on the spot as we grab hold of Christ... But sanctification is a process and our assurance is in Christ.... the struggles against legalistic tendencies vs the humble obedience (which is a mark of gratitude) and the ever increasing shedding of our old nature and occasional setbacks (related to falling into sin) can rob us of our joy & peace sometimes....

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:41 PM.
Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53482
Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?

Well, let me put it to you this way..... If a professed believer sins and does not feel guilty for doing so, then that person had better examine themselves to see if Christ by the Spirit is in them. It is guilt that drives a believer to repentance, either for the first time or thereafter. Thus, confession of sin comes both from the knowledge that we have transgressed God's holy law and that are consciences are pricked from dishonoring God. That we are judicially guilty before God when we sin is certainly untrue, since we have an advocate with the Father; Christ Jesus who bore ALL our sins on the cross and by grace we have been eternally declared righteous in His sight due to the imputed righteousness of the Lord Christ.


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Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: Pilgrim] #53492
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:41 AM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:41 AM
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Do you see any difference between the conviction from the Holy Spirit when we do sin, and feeling guilty?

Re: The Whole Christ.... [Re: JesusFan] #53494
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:51 AM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
Do you see any difference between the conviction from the Holy Spirit when we do sin, and feeling guilty?

Yes, they are inseparable. Conviction IS the realization of having sinned and the believer infallibly mourns over having done so because they are guilty. The fact that the Lord Christ has removed the forensic guilt, i.e., they are no longer under condemnation does not remove the feeling of guilt for dishonoring God.


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