Donations for the month of March


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 14,450
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,781
Posts54,881
Members974
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,447
Tom 4,516
chestnutmare 3,320
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,865
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 4
John_C 1
Recent Posts
1 Cor. 6:9-11
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:02 PM
Change in NRSVue text note on 1 John 5:7
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:07 AM
Is the church in crisis
by John_C - Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:52 AM
Jordan Peterson ordered to take sensitivity training
by Tom - Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:00 PM
Should Creeds be read in Church?
by Pilgrim - Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:30 AM
Do Christians have Dual Personalities: Peace & Wretchedness?
by DiscipleEddie - Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:15 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#53437 Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:28 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Very Enlightening....
Quote
You may be shocked or at least mildly offended to find Ferguson agreeing with Thomas Boston’s criticism of Bunyan’s seemingly infallible allegory Pilgrim’s Progress. But hear him out. Boston thinks “Bunyan put the putting off of the burden too far off from the commencing of the pilgrimage. If he meant to describe what usually happens, he is right. But if he meant to show what ought to have happened, he was wrong. The cross should be right in front of the wicket gate” (59). Ferguson agrees, because “neither conviction nor the forsaking of sin constitutes the warrant for the gospel offer. Christ Himself is the warrant, since he is able to save all who come to Him. He is offered without conditions. We are to go straight to him! It is not necessary to have any money in order to be able to buy Christ” (60).

We need to get this right, because “Christians associate the character of God with the character of the preaching they hear—not only the substance and content of it but the spirit and atmosphere it conveys” (72)

https://www.9marks.org/article/book-review-the-whole-christ-by-sinclair-ferguson/

"He does not love us if we love Him. He loves us with an unconditional love; therefore, we should love Him. The message of the covenant is one of God’s totally free grace to His people. Of course, it calls for a response of total commitment. But notice the order: God’s covenant love is not the result of our commitment; it is the cause of it. The pattern is, "I will, therefore you should;" not "I will, but only if you will first." -SF

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:39 PM.
Anthony C. #53438 Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
I heard Sinclair Ferguson give a lecture on the Marrow Controversy at a pastor's conference in 1979 in which he spoke of Bunyan's error and I had no doubt that he was correct.

Quote
Matthew 11:25-30 (ASV) At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight. All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal [him.] Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (emphasis mine)
We go to Christ as sinners who are incapable of making ourselves right or to rid ourselves of our sin or to make ourselves worthy. We need to first be justified in God's sight thus making us qualified for heaven and thereafter, it is God the Spirit who sanctifies us and prepares us for heaven. God loved those whom He desired to save from all eternity as those who needed to be redeemed from our hatred of God and the insatiable love of sin.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53440 Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
We love Him because and due to Him first loving us, an giving Himself to die in our stead, and to being risen for our account...

JesusFan #53442 Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
We love Him because and due to Him first loving us, an giving Himself to die in our stead, and to being risen for our account...
I don't understand the relevance of what you wrote to one putting off the "burden" before coming to the cross?

And, out of curiosity, who does the "us", "our stead" and "our account" refer to in your statement?


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53446 Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Those who are the saved, the ones whom Jesus died for...

JesusFan #53450 Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Those who are the saved, the ones whom Jesus died for...
Thanks for the reply on the second question, but how about the first?

I don't understand the relevance of what you wrote to one putting off the "burden" before coming to the cross?


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53465 Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
What did you mean by "the Burden?"

JesusFan #53467 Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
What did you mean by "the Burden?"
GUILT.... the conviction of sin by which a regenerate man is brought to repentance and of which being united to Christ through faith is removed.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53471 Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
I thought that there was now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, so would we be feeling guilty?

JesusFan #53474 Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:17 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by JesusFan
I thought that there was now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, so would we be feeling guilty?
Hi, the tricky thing about Bunyan's classic is he depicts common experience in addition to scriptural reality and lays it out allegorically..... I would say periodic guilt is something not foreign to many of the faithful

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:20 AM.
Anthony C. #53480 Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?

JesusFan #53481 Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:31 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by JesusFan
We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?
Not for long.... We should not.... But with new life sometimes old sins & habits die hard.... Of course the struggle can be subdued on the spot as we grab hold of Christ... But sanctification is a process and our assurance is in Christ.... the struggles against legalistic tendencies vs the humble obedience (which is a mark of gratitude) and the ever increasing shedding of our old nature and occasional setbacks (related to falling into sin) can rob us of our joy & peace sometimes....

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:41 PM.
JesusFan #53482 Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
We feel convicted by the Spirit, and sorrow at times, but we should we feel guity , since the blood of Jesus covers all sins?
Well, let me put it to you this way..... If a professed believer sins and does not feel guilty for doing so, then that person had better examine themselves to see if Christ by the Spirit is in them. It is guilt that drives a believer to repentance, either for the first time or thereafter. Thus, confession of sin comes both from the knowledge that we have transgressed God's holy law and that are consciences are pricked from dishonoring God. That we are judicially guilty before God when we sin is certainly untrue, since we have an advocate with the Father; Christ Jesus who bore ALL our sins on the cross and by grace we have been eternally declared righteous in His sight due to the imputed righteousness of the Lord Christ.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53492 Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Do you see any difference between the conviction from the Holy Spirit when we do sin, and feeling guilty?

JesusFan #53494 Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Do you see any difference between the conviction from the Holy Spirit when we do sin, and feeling guilty?
Yes, they are inseparable. Conviction IS the realization of having sinned and the believer infallibly mourns over having done so because they are guilty. The fact that the Lord Christ has removed the forensic guilt, i.e., they are no longer under condemnation does not remove the feeling of guilt for dishonoring God.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 84 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,506,457 Gospel truth