Donations for the month of April


We have received a total of $100 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
Posts: 2,910
Joined: September 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,620
Posts51,090
Members925
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,410
Tom 3,424
chestnutmare 2,910
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,754
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 18
Tom 10
cathmg 5
John_C 3
Tina 3
Kaylin 1
Recent Posts
What exactly is a confessional church
by Pilgrim. Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:33 AM
Dispensationalism
by Tom. Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 PM
James White Article
by Pilgrim. Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:10 PM
Importance of dating the destruction of the Temple
by Pilgrim. Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:13 PM
A study of the Heidelberg Catechism
by cathmg. Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:58 PM
"The Reformed View of Sanctification" - Sinclair Ferguson
by Pilgrim. Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:04 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: goldenoldie] #53460
Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:58 AM
Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
I do not intend to offend you or any other Christian on this issue, but would still tend to see this as an issue of conviction and liberty/freedom in Christ now to have each local assembly decide freely for themselves on this issue which way to go on this issue.
Ypu and Pilgram could very well be correct on this issue, but would not want to see this as a way to have division, as I can worship the Lord under your guidelines, as well as under ny Church morre ";ooser" guidelines, as worshipping is from the heart either way!

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: JesusFan] #53464
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 AM
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Originally Posted by JesusFan
I do not intend to offend you or any other Christian on this issue, but would still tend to see this as an issue of conviction and liberty/freedom in Christ now to have each local assembly decide freely for themselves on this issue which way to go on this issue.

There has been myriad attempts to show you that the issue of head covering is not a matter of personal conviction and/or Christian Liberty, but rather it is based upon God's creation. Paul's reprimand of the Corinthian church's failure to practice head coverings wouldn't even exist if it was a matter of Christian Liberty. Paul begins his criticism by first encouraging the church to be imitators of him as he is of Christ. He then writes that they are to "hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you." Obviously, the matter of how women are to conduct themselves in the assembly was previously taught to them, either in written form or by Paul's actual presents there. He calls these doctrines "traditions", which he refers to again as "custom" in v. 16.

There is not even a hint of "cultural custom" in the entire passage. In fact the ecclesiastical "tradition/custom" of women wearing a head covering in the church was the opposite of women did in Greek culture. The only way someone can reject the doctrine of women wearing a head covering is to completely ignore Paul's teaching on this matter which is again based upon creation. Paul even uses reason in the passage, e.g., "Doth not even nature itself teach you..." which shows that what he was writing was obvious in and of itself.

God's "regulative principle of worship" can hardly be equated with what a person can or cannot eat or drink. nope


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Pilgrim] #53473
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:02 AM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
I understand what you are explaining here, its just that we would hold to in worship and yeaching/preaching that we are free todo what is not expressly forbidden in the sctiptures themselves...

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: JesusFan] #53475
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:51 AM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Originally Posted by JesusFan
I understand what you are explaining here, its just that we would hold to in worship and yeaching/preaching that we are free todo what is not expressly forbidden in the sctiptures themselves...

That view is what is held by Lutherans and basically all non-Reformed churches. The Reformed and Presbyterian churches, even before the Reformation, the view has been consistently held to be... Whatever is not prescribed by God in Scripture is forbidden. The worship of God in Scripture is never left to the imagination and decisions of man. That view is historically known as the "Regulative Principle in Worship". There is some disagreement among those who embrace this biblical teaching on two points; exclusive psalmody and instrumentation. Otherwise there is full agreement. Unfortunately today, the Regulative Principle is too often ignored and most churches have adopted worldliness into its profane worship. A simple search on the website will give you several excellent articles on this subject. And, you can find many articles on Worship in Calvinism and the Reformed Faith > Ecclesiology > Worship (section).


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Mckinley] #53477
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:01 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
If I am understanding what you are saying here. You are advocating what is commonly referred to as "the Normative Principle of Worship."
Personally I am an advocate of the Regulative Principle of Worship.
The Highway has many articles written on that subject.

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Tom] #53478
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:53 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
If that means that we allow for musical instruments during worship, yes we do, as we usually sing a combo of classic Hymns and contemporary worship songs.

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: JesusFan] #53484
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:41 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: JesusFan] #53485
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:45 PM
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Originally Posted by JesusFan
If that means that we allow for musical instruments during worship, yes we do, as we usually sing a combo of classic Hymns and contemporary worship songs.

I'm afraid you have misunderstood what I wrote above re: "The Regulative Principle". The matter of instrumentation and exclusive psalmody is an in house difference. It is not applicable to those, like yourself who don't hold to the Regulative Principle. For those who do hold to the Regulative Principle and who do believe that Scripture allows for the use of instruments, e.g., piano, organ for worship, they would be adamantly opposed to the use of those instruments that are associated with the world, e.g., drums, electric guitars, etc. Likewise, those who hold to the Regulative Principle and believe that the use of spiritual songs and hymns in addition to the Psalms would not allow worldly "contemporary music" in the worship of God. We believe these profane the true worship of God.

E.S. Williams (a Baptist and member of the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London) has written several articles on the "New Calvinist" movement; providing the who is and what of that movement. Just go to The Highway main page and type in: "New Calvinism" (with quotes) in the Google Search Bar and all his articles will be displayed. You should acquaint yourself with this contemporary movement.

You should also learn about the historic Reformed churches and their biblical teaching of "The Regulative Principle" (of worship). Contemporary so-called worship is a very recent invention, especially in the USA. Again, go to The Highway main page and type in: "Regulative Principle" (with quotes) and the salient articles will be displayed.

Now, this thread is getting [Linked Image]. Therefore, if you wish to continue a discussion on worship, please start a new thread. grin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Pilgrim] #53490
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:36 AM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
Thanks to you and Tom for your articles, and I do see where you both come from in this area area, and would say that this again is an issue where there will no doubt be some disagreement on, but I would also add that think both positions can be supported from the scriptures, and that I can enjoy either way of worship services, as have attended both types!

I think that our churches are somewhat different in function, as mine is baptist, but none part of the reformed baptist churches, so there will be those liek myself who would see ourselves as being calvinist, and others who tend to see more free will on issues!

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: JesusFan] #53495
Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:08 PM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,411
NH, USA
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Thanks to you and Tom for your articles, and I do see where you both come from in this area area, and would say that this again is an issue where there will no doubt be some disagreement on, but I would also add that think both positions can be supported from the scriptures, and that I can enjoy either way of worship services, as have attended both types!

There is disagreement on EVERY doctrine, so does that mean that there is no truth? You have often used this type of reason to justify views which are contrary to Scripture and have offered no biblical defense. One of the most serious has been your defense of the heresy that salvation can be appropriated through false doctrine, false gospels, false conversions, ad nauseam. Contrariwise, I have provided myriad biblical passages that have shown this view to be unbiblical and thus heretical. You have in all these disagreements taken the position, whether you did so deliberately or not, that there is no such thing as "propositional truth", aka: "True Truth" ala Francis Schaeffer. This mentality is what those who believe that Christianity is a "big tent" promote, i.e., there is room for most everyone, despite the fact that the doctrines they embrace are antithetical. The phenomenon is the result of the infiltration of post-modernism which promotes individuality and relativity. God the Spirit did not stutter nor lisp when He inspired those who put to writing the Scriptures. And the Lord Christ made His sheep the infallible promise that the Spirit whom He would send would lead them into all truth. That men may and do err does not negate Christ's promise, for a remnant of the sin nature exists in all believers. However, the essential doctrines of the faith have been hammered out and set forth in the historic Reformed confessions and catechisms and those have been held unanimously among the true churches. When you or anyone else takes issue with those doctrines, the onus is upon you to prove them wrong. wink


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Pilgrim] #53496
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:31 PM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrim excellent reply.
I especially like your last sentence and recommend to Jesusfan to familiarize himself with these creeds and confessions.
I certainly wish I had when I first discovered Reformed theology, they probably would have helped me sort through a lot of the junk out there.
Tom

Last edited by Tom; Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 PM.
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Mckinley] #53497
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:49 PM
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,426
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Just thought I would add something that CH Spurgeon said on this subject.

Quote
I am persuaded that the use of a good Catechism in all our families will be a great safeguard against the increasing errors of the times, and therefore I have compiled this little manual from the Westminster Assembly's and Baptist Catechisms, for the use of my own church and congregation. Those who use it in their families or classes must labour to explain the sense; but the words should be carefully learned by heart, for they will be understood better as years pass.
May the Lord bless my dear friends and their families evermore, is the prayer of their loving Pastor.
C. H. Spurgeon

http://www.spurgeon.org/catechis.php

By the way years ago I was told that Spurgeon was not a fan of the confessions. Had I known about what is written above, I would have added what they said to my junk pile.

Tom

Last edited by Pilgrim; Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:07 AM. Reason: Put quote in a quote box
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Tom] #53499
Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:01 AM
Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,910
NH
chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
chestnutmare  Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,910
NH
Note the language used in the Preface to the Savoy Declaration of Faith 1658

Quote

Confessions, when made by a company of Professors of Christianity jointly meeting to that end, the most genuine and natural use of such Confessions is, That under the same form of words, they express the substance of the same common salvation or unity of their faith; whereby speaking the same things, they show themselves perfectly joined in the same mind, and in the same judgment, 1 Cor i.10.


These confessions and creeds should be taught and serve to ensure that the congregants are of one mind. Just to remind you that The Highway Discussion Board has a whole forum devoted to creeds, confessions and catechisms and some have commentaries with them which are a very helpful resource. Also note that The Highway has a section as you scroll down the page with creeds and confessions and the Canons of Dordt.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: Tom] #53500
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:21 AM
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
I did use the Spurgeon version of the catechism with my boys!

Re: Christian Reformed Church [Re: chestnutmare] #53501
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:24 AM
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
Addict
JesusFan  Offline
Addict
J
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
I am wading thru online the link Pilgram gave me to the 1689 Baptist Confession, meaty stuff!

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 14 guests, and 108 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dutch Michael, Ray, robertolang, SmallFry, drewk
925 Registered Users
Shout Box
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
735,743 Gospel truth
Page Time: 0.109s Queries: 16 (0.042s) Memory: 2.9845 MB (Peak: 3.3012 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-20 16:43:23 UTC